Gore is horrible.

[The Cyndicate]

I had to register here just to post this.
I hope this forum can handle negative criticism, without deleting topics.

I am a VERY long time Deftones fan. I have listened to them since they had a sort demo for Adrenaline, and then I grabbed a copy of like Linus, so we are talking a long time.

Throughout all of their changes, I have never had a bad thing to say about them. They have always been masterful and awe inspiring when it comes to how they evolve.

I have my own background in music, I have also helped offshoot a few pretty popular bands as well, so I know how hard the job is to do what they do.

That all being said, Gore is horrible.

The production is really bad. The songs sound like bad versions of Palms songs. Chinos vocals are bad and it sounds like Stephen had nothing to do with it.

I am heartbroken.

I have never felt this way about anything they have done and I am getting the same reaction from other people I know in the industry who are also shocked by it.

If I feel this way, and all of the people I know, feel this way, then why is this album getting lip service, with anything negative getting blotted out? I feel they really need to know that this album is a wreck, so that they can avoid doing it again in the future.

I'm sure some blinded people will flame away, but I assure you, I am about as die hard of a Deftones fan as you can be.

I'm curious to see other detailed thoughts from knowledgeable people on these things. To me, it really seems that Stephs influence was blocked and it killed this album.

[only pieces remain]

sup jaypayton?

[Inkblades]

Couple thoughts:

1. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine, however, is completely different than yours. Here it is: if Deftones have a problem, Chino isn't the reason for it. Maybe look at the guy who is writing bland riffs that are a shell of his old stuff?

2. Isn't Like Linus more or less the Adrenaline demo? Is that what you mean?

3. "Bad versions of Palms songs"...so, basically, Palms songs? I have no problems with Chino's Gore vocals (besides parts of Doomed User). I'll give you that there's some spotty production, but Gore's vocals and production absolutely blow vocals and production on Palms out of the water, IMO. I don't really get the Palms comparisons, to be honest. Palms is summery post-rock, while Gore is grungy alternative metal.

4. Anyway, if Gore isn't for you, it isn't for you. I'm not the biggest fan of KNY besides a few songs, so I don't listen to it much. There's other people who can't stand S/T and SNW. If you love seven out of eight of their albums, stick with the other seven albums and don't listen to Gore. Simple as that. And the mostly positive feedback on the album isn't "lip service". Maybe others actually just enjoy the album?

[The Cyndicate]

Couple thoughts:

1. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine, however, is completely different than yours. Here it is: if Deftones have a problem, Chino isn't the reason for it. Maybe look at the guy who is writing bland riffs that are a shell of his old stuff?

2. Isn't Like Linus more or less the Adrenaline demo? Is that what you mean?

3. "Bad versions of Palms songs"...so, basically, Palms songs? I have no problems with Chino's Gore vocals (besides parts of Doomed User). I'll give you that there's some spotty production, but Gore's vocals and production absolutely blow vocals and production on Palms out of the water, IMO. I don't really get the Palms comparisons, to be honest. Palms is summery post-rock, while Gore is grungy alternative metal.

Because everything is just bland.

And vocally, he is pretty bad on this album. He is losing his depth and things are sounding forced and placated.

Like Linus is the main demo, but while they were doing shows, they had a shorter demo. Like Linus is just the longer version with more songs on it.

As far as the problem with this album, I honestly don't know where it comes from. I just have a gut feeling, being that I have done this myself, the changes seem to come from the side projects. I happen to love Crosses, but Gore sounds like a side project album. Considering Chino is the one doing a million side projects, it stands to reason that he is the root cause of this.

Either way, I don't care about blame, I just want it recognized and fixed. This is one of the best bands in history and this is the first chink in their armor. I just don't want it to become catastrophic.

I have tried to force myself to like these songs, it just isn't possible. My woman who also loves them, can't stand it either.

This album was a mistake.

[Inkblades]

Lol, yeah. I'm kinda surprised myself. Let's just pretend I never said it. : /

[ANattyRat]

"They really need to know that this album is a wreck." Lol OK. Dude, I've heard overwhelmingly positive reviews from fans and reviews alike. The fact that you hate the album is fine, but your opinion isn't fact just because you've been a fan since forever, or because you're in the music industry or something. Different people like different things.

Stef didn't get any ideas for the album until the band had already started coming up with stuff, so yeah, Stef's ideas aren't on the album as much as they probably usually would. But that's his fault, and even if it's his fault, it happens. Hopefully next time he'll be more creative early into the process and have more input.

I think Chino's vocals sound great, with the exception of Doomed User like someone else said earlier. I'm not a big fan of the shout-scream he has, but dude can't scream as raw and visceral-sounding throughout an entire song like he used to, so he's just working with what he's got.

I've seen a few people compare Gore to Palms, which is weird because I hate Palms, I've never been able to get into it, so I don't get the comparisons.

Anyway, they never make the same album twice, so it sucks you don't like Gore, but who knows what they'll do in a few years? Either way, no, the album wasn't a mistake. The fact that you don't like it doesn't change anything for the band or for anyone else.

[Far away]

I had to register here just to post this.
I hope this forum can handle negative criticism, without deleting topics.

I am a VERY long time Deftones fan. I have listened to them since they had a sort demo for Adrenaline, and then I grabbed a copy of like Linus, so we are talking a long time.

Throughout all of their changes, I have never had a bad thing to say about them. They have always been masterful and awe inspiring when it comes to how they evolve.

I have my own background in music, I have also helped offshoot a few pretty popular bands as well, so I know how hard the job is to do what they do.

That all being said, Gore is horrible.

The production is really bad. The songs sound like bad versions of Palms songs. Chinos vocals are bad and it sounds like Stephen had nothing to do with it.

I am heartbroken.

I have never felt this way about anything they have done and I am getting the same reaction from other people I know in the industry who are also shocked by it.

If I feel this way, and all of the people I know, feel this way, then why is this album getting lip service, with anything negative getting blotted out? I feel they really need to know that this album is a wreck, so that they can avoid doing it again in the future.

I'm sure some blinded people will flame away, but I assure you, I am about as die hard of a Deftones fan as you can be.

I'm curious to see other detailed thoughts from knowledgeable people on these things. To me, it really seems that Stephs influence was blocked and it killed this album.

I do not speak on SL's behalf BUT its not like you cant say your opinion in here. If its diferent from the majority of opinions in here and ppl rage about it, fuck them. So what? We gotta love every piece of work they put out? Fuck no...
That said, I do disagree with you, though. Its not my favorite album but its by far the best one since S/T (IMO).

I came to this conclusion when S/T came out that they better evolve to something diferent and new and maybe cause a little confusion betweem the fans, than just sit back and copy/paste what they already know that work. I dont want another ATF, or another WP. I want a good album, I dont care if its diferent. But, thats just me. At the end of the day, if we are able to tell: ok its something new and diferent, but still a Deftones record, I'm fine with it.

[only pieces remain]

gore >>>> koi no yokan


on gore he actually sings within his range thank fucking god

[Martin]

Sorry you feel that way.

And; this opinion could have been posted in the topic about this album.

[TheyCallMeP]

What about the people who like Gore and are Deftones fans? The opening statement (Cyndicate) sounds just a bit pretentious. "If me and my friends feel this way..." please stop.

Also, as far as blaming members and playing that whole game, it's not Chino. I think him and Abe make the band unique and stand out (personal opinion; disagreements allowed).

[whitefur]

The situation is interesting. I think Gore is better than KNY and DE. The construction of the songs is more intricate and the guitar riffs are better. But the production is effing HORRIBLE.

[illthrowROCKS@U]

The situation is interesting. I think Gore is better than KNY and DE. The construction of the songs is more intricate and the guitar riffs are better. But the production is effing HORRIBLE.

Seriously... Gore makes KNY and DE look awful by comparison.

[Bifrost]

I can say as a long time fan this is first album that has come out that I have been disappointed in.

Production is pretty bad, the mix in general- I am not an expert here but the guitar levels are not right in the mix, too high- Chino vocals are hard to here at times. Also the whole bass VI thing Sergio was excited about kinda fell flat for me. It didn't really add to the dynamics for me.

I am not sure if it's Chino of Stef but the song writing was bland- I wish they would write a decent bridge for once.

To me, ever since stef went past 6 strings his creativity in writing riffs has been steadily declining.


I know a lot of people are more than happy with this album and I envy them, I just can't seem to get into it.

One thing I will add, lyrically, I wish Chino would get past all the esoteric themes and just write how he used to about relationships and more situational/themed songs (ala passenger, feiticiera). I found those easier to get attached too.

I will probably do a breakdown in the Occult thread specifically about the lyrics but as anyone can tell the almost all the songs are about Chino battling his demons, he said as much in an interview recently regarding P/T. I wish he would keep those themes w/ crosses, and let deftones be something more urban and raw as it was before.

Once again this is just my opinion~ if you love Gore, more power to you.

[B_S_79]

I agree. Production is pretty terrible. I would always like to hear more Frank and Abe. They definitely got pushed back a bunch in the mix. (They usually make up for lack of Frank at their live shows, so it's always a treat to go see them and hear his contributions.)

I've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

[rainnyx4]

The situation is interesting. I think Gore is better than KNY and DE. The construction of the songs is more intricate and the guitar riffs are better. But the production is effing HORRIBLE.

Saying that the songs are more intricately constructed and the guitar riffs are better is objectively false. At least for Stephen, Gore features probably some of his laziest riff writing to date.

Sure DE and to a far lesser extent KNY had some basic and bland riffage and songwriting, but it is no way near to the level found on Gore.

[nicklav]

I think Gore is great, and is a marked improvement over DE and KNY. That said, I miss Chino singing softly on verses like he did all over S/T (Good Morning Beautiful comes to mind). That has always felt more authentic to me, where as now it feels like he's trying to be a singer. I don't know if that makes sense.

[illthrowROCKS@U]

Sure DE and to a far lesser extent KNY had some basic and bland riffage and songwriting, but it is no way near to the level found on Gore.

I'm not sure if he's ever come up with a more bland riff than YSTB.  Yet, that song is popular with the fans (for what reason I'm not exactly sure).  I wouldn't say it's "objectively false" that Gore is more creative than DE, because I agree with that statement wholeheartedly.

[whitefur]

I've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

Yes, it's Stef's guitar......it's very harsh sounding.

[illthrowROCKS@U]

I've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

Yes, it's Stef's guitar......it's very harsh sounding.

Steph's guitar sounds like ass on the record.  Given that they weren't on a timetable (or so they've said), you'd think they would have spent more time and energy making sure the shit didn't sound like that.  I know they did spend a lot of time, but hearing the finished product they definitely should have spent MORE time on it.  Also I think the 8 string is too much, the 7 was perfect but that 8 string just sounds shitty even in a good mix.

[nicklav]

I've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

Yes, it's Stef's guitar......it's very harsh sounding.

Steph's guitar sounds like ass on the record.  Given that they weren't on a timetable (or so they've said), you'd think they would have spent more time and energy making sure the shit didn't sound like that.  I know they did spend a lot of time, but hearing the finished product they definitely should have spent MORE time on it.  Also I think the 8 string is too much, the 7 was perfect but that 8 string just sounds shitty even in a good mix.

Been on this train for a while. Would love him to go back to 7.