Gore

[ANattyRat]

The songwriting just wasn't there on Gore. KNY was massively ambitious and progressive for the band with all of the intros/outros, fully formed songs, and varied structures, styles, and techniques. KNY was the closest thing they've done to a progressive concept album since WP, the album flowed and was expansive. Gore largely retreated on the intros/outros making it feel like a step backward. The only thing it really added to their sound was an 80's rock/metal flair on certain songs, that just wasn't that exciting for the most part. That said, Chino's vocals and Sergio's bass really shine on Gore. The shitty production certainly didn't help matters, but Gore wouldn't have been stellar even with good production. Hopefully, they're more inspired and ambitious on the next one.

Massively ambitious? Let's not go that far. The intros on Leathers and Goon Squad are cool, but the intro on Hearts/Wires is probably more progressive than any intro on KNY. Songwriting on KNY isn't that strong, anyway. Romantic Dreams and WHTY? are just trite, if anything. Tempest is an interesting but ultimately failed experiment that doesn't really gel together. Some good lyrics, though. Entombed has the worst bridge in Deftones history. Poltergeist is good, but would be better if Chino's screams were stronger on it. Graphic Nature is the type of song you think you enjoy while listening to it, but then immediately forget about once its over. Gauze has a fucking awesome vocal performance (that chorus, tho) but needs better riffs. Goon Squad is fun until its chorus gets repetitive. And now that I think about it, that intro really does not fit well with the rest of the song. Swerve is pretty good for a song that sounds like its trying too hard to get radio play. Rosemary's good, but better live.

That leaves Leathers, which is the best song on the album. *runs away*

Interesting that you're coming around on Chino's Gore performance, though. So being that you don't like Gore, do you blame it on Steph then?

I agree about the Hearts/Wires intro, I think that's their best, it's great stuff. (L)MIRL's intro (although quite short) is brilliant too. Maybe not technically so, but it's very atmospheric and effective. They obviously wanted to continue on with the intro thing they did on KNY a bit, but in their own way. Scaling something back or having less intros doesn't mean a step backwards, it's just a different direction, in my opinion.

As for Poltergeist, I remember we first heard it when it was performed live as Roller Derby, and as far as I remember most of us were impressed with it. I think it works brilliantly as a live song, there's a lot of intensity to it and Chino used to do inhale screams for the "wiiiild" part. So compared to that, on the album it sounds so scaled back, downsized, etc.

[Red Pill]

Swerve City is fucking massive and I won't it have any other way. That riff is a better Sepultura-esque riff than Sepultura themselves have actually written in the last twenty years.

Hahahahahhaahhahahahahajahahahahhabaha

[LG95]

Hahahahahahhahahah I'm so dumb, I'm on the fan forum of a band I don't even fucking like but hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[Red Pill]

Hahahahahahhahahah I'm so dumb, I'm on the fan forum of a band I don't even fucking like but hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Haha fuckin troll, never go full retard

[rainnyx4]

The songwriting just wasn't there on Gore. KNY was massively ambitious and progressive for the band with all of the intros/outros, fully formed songs, and varied structures, styles, and techniques. KNY was the closest thing they've done to a progressive concept album since WP, the album flowed and was expansive. Gore largely retreated on the intros/outros making it feel like a step backward. The only thing it really added to their sound was an 80's rock/metal flair on certain songs, that just wasn't that exciting for the most part. That said, Chino's vocals and Sergio's bass really shine on Gore. The shitty production certainly didn't help matters, but Gore wouldn't have been stellar even with good production. Hopefully, they're more inspired and ambitious on the next one.

Massively ambitious? Let's not go that far. The intros on Leathers and Goon Squad are cool, but the intro on Hearts/Wires is probably more progressive than any intro on KNY. Songwriting on KNY isn't that strong, anyway. Romantic Dreams and WHTY? are just trite, if anything. Tempest is an interesting but ultimately failed experiment that doesn't really gel together. Some good lyrics, though. Entombed has the worst bridge in Deftones history. Poltergeist is good, but would be better if Chino's screams were stronger on it. Graphic Nature is the type of song you think you enjoy while listening to it, but then immediately forget about once its over. Gauze has a fucking awesome vocal performance (that chorus, tho) but needs better riffs. Goon Squad is fun until its chorus gets repetitive. And now that I think about it, that intro really does not fit well with the rest of the song. Swerve is pretty good for a song that sounds like its trying too hard to get radio play. Rosemary's good, but better live.

That leaves Leathers, which is the best song on the album. *runs away*

Interesting that you're coming around on Chino's Gore performance, though. So being that you don't like Gore, do you blame it on Steph then?

LOL @ considering KNY repetitive and trite when this board fawns over S/T which has the most songs that could be considered so. No one really comments on the fact that the songwriting was massively repetitive and not fully formed, with certain sounds being overused on S/T (I quantified this by comparing the song structures of Hexagram and WHTY?), instead focusing on how great the "dark" nature of the album is. People here are always saying how "poppy and upbeat" KNY is and how they want them to go back to the vibe of S/T. Honestly, I don't really care what kind of vibe the band is going for on any of their albums (their diversity of theme and sentiment is one of the reasons they're my favorite band) as long as the songwriting is good. Every song on KNY is good or great. Gore? You've got like only half the album living up to that standard.

Never really come around on anything the band does. My first impressions are pretty much how I feel from then on. When I first heard S/T I was severely disappointed with how lazy the songwriting was and how samey it sounded. Outside of a few songs (Anniversary and WGTB being legit highlights) that album just did not display what this band is capable of. Gore is the same way. I noticed how good Chino's vocal deliveries on the album were even with that initial shitty rip. When I got the actual album and was able to listen to it on a good sound system, you can hear how great Sergio's contributions were (I'm not as sentimental as most people on the board and can say that, despite how great of a guy Chi was, Sergio is clearly the better bass player).

I don't know what I would blame Gore's lackluster quality on. Part of me thinks it was the producer. It's been clear in the past that the band can become unmotivated quite easily and that they need a good producer to keep them in line. That said, they've created some of their best stuff and their worst stuff with the same producer (Terry Date). So, it's likely a combination of factors.

[illthrowROCKS@U]

I don't think KNY could hold a candle to ST.

KNY is just boring and poppy at moments. Though, certainly not as much so as Diamond Eyes was, but come on... Tempest is quite possibly the most boring Deftones song aside from maybe You've Seen the Butcher. You can't compare songs like Swerve City or Tempest to the amazing opener of Hexagram (probably the best Deftones opener of them all) or Bloody Cape. Hexagram, Bloody Cape, WGTB, and Battle-Axe alone slay pretty much anything else this band has put out, much less anything of the past 10 years.

Swerve City, Romantic Dreams, Graphic Nature, and Tempest are total snoozefests (by Deftones standards). Entombed has the same problem as Sextape, where it's a good song and good concept, but just seems to drag on a bit too long. Abe at the end of Entombed is great though. Poltergeist and Goon Squad are good songs. But really, for me, KNY is all about Rosemary, Leathers, and WHTY? They're the only three songs I ever listen to anymore.

Self Titled just hits every G-spot I have for this band. And that's probably why I like Gore. From what I've seen, people who prefer ST also like Gore. People who do not like ST, and prefer albums like DE and KNY, do not like Gore.

[rainnyx4]

Again, I don't care about the vibes of the albums. I care about the songwriting being varied, unique, and stimulating. S/T and Gore largely fail on those fronts, which makes them their worst albums from my perspective.

I also really wish people would stop referring to DE and KNY as "poppy or upbeat" like they're some random pop artist. Deftones have never written anything with the intention of "getting radio play" or however you want to classify it (outside of Back to School, which the band reluctantly performed at behest of their label). If that were ever the case with this band, they would've fallen into obscurity by now, just like all the other bands of their time. This band can and does whatever they want to express because they've carved out their own niche and as a result, have dedicated enough fans that they can guarantee themselves a more than comfortable income without sacrificing their artistic integrity. If they "get radio play" it's despite, not because of their creative choices.

[Penicks]

KING

KONG

GET

SOME

[O]

Well you should have known it's still the same old song

[Inkblades]

The songwriting just wasn't there on Gore. KNY was massively ambitious and progressive for the band with all of the intros/outros, fully formed songs, and varied structures, styles, and techniques. KNY was the closest thing they've done to a progressive concept album since WP, the album flowed and was expansive. Gore largely retreated on the intros/outros making it feel like a step backward. The only thing it really added to their sound was an 80's rock/metal flair on certain songs, that just wasn't that exciting for the most part. That said, Chino's vocals and Sergio's bass really shine on Gore. The shitty production certainly didn't help matters, but Gore wouldn't have been stellar even with good production. Hopefully, they're more inspired and ambitious on the next one.

Massively ambitious? Let's not go that far. The intros on Leathers and Goon Squad are cool, but the intro on Hearts/Wires is probably more progressive than any intro on KNY. Songwriting on KNY isn't that strong, anyway. Romantic Dreams and WHTY? are just trite, if anything. Tempest is an interesting but ultimately failed experiment that doesn't really gel together. Some good lyrics, though. Entombed has the worst bridge in Deftones history. Poltergeist is good, but would be better if Chino's screams were stronger on it. Graphic Nature is the type of song you think you enjoy while listening to it, but then immediately forget about once its over. Gauze has a fucking awesome vocal performance (that chorus, tho) but needs better riffs. Goon Squad is fun until its chorus gets repetitive. And now that I think about it, that intro really does not fit well with the rest of the song. Swerve is pretty good for a song that sounds like its trying too hard to get radio play. Rosemary's good, but better live.

That leaves Leathers, which is the best song on the album. *runs away*

Interesting that you're coming around on Chino's Gore performance, though. So being that you don't like Gore, do you blame it on Steph then?

LOL @ considering KNY repetitive and trite when this board fawns over S/T which has the most songs that could be considered so. No one really comments on the fact that the songwriting was massively repetitive and not fully formed, with certain sounds being overused on S/T (I quantified this by comparing the song structures of Hexagram and WHTY?), instead focusing on how great the "dark" nature of the album is. People here are always saying how "poppy and upbeat" KNY is and how they want them to go back to the vibe of S/T. Honestly, I don't really care what kind of vibe the band is going for on any of their albums (their diversity of theme and sentiment is one of the reasons they're my favorite band) as long as the songwriting is good. Every song on KNY is good or great. Gore? You've got like only half the album living up to that standard.

Never really come around on anything the band does. My first impressions are pretty much how I feel from then on. When I first heard S/T I was severely disappointed with how lazy the songwriting was and how samey it sounded. Outside of a few songs (Anniversary and WGTB being legit highlights) that album just did not display what this band is capable of. Gore is the same way. I noticed how good Chino's vocal deliveries on the album were even with that initial shitty rip. When I got the actual album and was able to listen to it on a good sound system, you can hear how great Sergio's contributions were (I'm not as sentimental as most people on the board and can say that, despite how great of a guy Chi was, Sergio is clearly the better bass player).

I don't know what I would blame Gore's lackluster quality on. Part of me thinks it was the producer. It's been clear in the past that the band can become unmotivated quite easily and that they need a good producer to keep them in line. That said, they've created some of their best stuff and their worst stuff with the same producer (Terry Date). So, it's likely a combination of factors.

I disagree on "sounds" beings overused on S/T. Does Hexagram sound like WGTB? No. Does Deathblow sound like Bloody Cape? No. Does Minerva sound like Anniversary? No. Does Good Morning Beautiful sound like Battle-Axe? No. Does Needles & Pins sound like Lucky You? No. What you're confusing this with is the fact that S/T is a very cohesive album. Those 11 songs fit together beautifully, which I can't say for Koi.

I remember the Hexagram/WHTY? debate, which is honestly laughable. You're entitled to your opinion, I guess, but you are likely the only Deftones fan in the WORLD who thinks WHTY? is a better song than Hexagram. I also remember you admitting that Hexagram had awesome riffs, but since WHTY? had one more riff, it was better or something. I'll take two awesome riffs in a song over three boring, uninspired and toothless riffs in a song any day the week. That was my argument last time and I stick with it. Fuck, the riffs on S/T blow the riffs on KNY out of the water. Hell, the first minute and 10 seconds on Battle-Axe ALONE blows pretty much every riff on Koi out of the water.

And sure, not all of Koi is poppy. But Swerve City and Romantic Dreams back to back is a poppy ass way to start a record. And it sounds borderline schizophrenic because Leathers and Poltergeist sound so dark in comparison. It's why S/T flows better, because it's so much more tonally congruent. Koi suffers from SNW disease, where it feels like none of the songs fit together. This would have been a better way to open, I think:

1. Leathers
2. Swerve City
3. Poltergeist
4. Romantic Dreams

Push RD back as far as possible, because it's a boring, boring song. Bury it in the album, in other words.

Here's the bottom line: Koi is a stylish, well-produced album with memorable moments on almost every song, but it just lacks depth. It's all shallow surfaces. S/T, on the other hand, is an album to get lost in.

And don't get it twisted: I don't want them go back to the S/T vibe. I don't want them to repeat themselves - and, to their immense credit, they never have. Every album is wholly unique. But I also don't want them to chase after radio hits, which is what I think they did on some of the DE and KNY singles.

[nicklav]

The songwriting just wasn't there on Gore. KNY was massively ambitious and progressive for the band with all of the intros/outros, fully formed songs, and varied structures, styles, and techniques. KNY was the closest thing they've done to a progressive concept album since WP, the album flowed and was expansive. Gore largely retreated on the intros/outros making it feel like a step backward. The only thing it really added to their sound was an 80's rock/metal flair on certain songs, that just wasn't that exciting for the most part. That said, Chino's vocals and Sergio's bass really shine on Gore. The shitty production certainly didn't help matters, but Gore wouldn't have been stellar even with good production. Hopefully, they're more inspired and ambitious on the next one.

Massively ambitious? Let's not go that far. The intros on Leathers and Goon Squad are cool, but the intro on Hearts/Wires is probably more progressive than any intro on KNY. Songwriting on KNY isn't that strong, anyway. Romantic Dreams and WHTY? are just trite, if anything. Tempest is an interesting but ultimately failed experiment that doesn't really gel together. Some good lyrics, though. Entombed has the worst bridge in Deftones history. Poltergeist is good, but would be better if Chino's screams were stronger on it. Graphic Nature is the type of song you think you enjoy while listening to it, but then immediately forget about once its over. Gauze has a fucking awesome vocal performance (that chorus, tho) but needs better riffs. Goon Squad is fun until its chorus gets repetitive. And now that I think about it, that intro really does not fit well with the rest of the song. Swerve is pretty good for a song that sounds like its trying too hard to get radio play. Rosemary's good, but better live.

That leaves Leathers, which is the best song on the album. *runs away*

Interesting that you're coming around on Chino's Gore performance, though. So being that you don't like Gore, do you blame it on Steph then?

LOL @ considering KNY repetitive and trite when this board fawns over S/T which has the most songs that could be considered so. No one really comments on the fact that the songwriting was massively repetitive and not fully formed, with certain sounds being overused on S/T (I quantified this by comparing the song structures of Hexagram and WHTY?), instead focusing on how great the "dark" nature of the album is. People here are always saying how "poppy and upbeat" KNY is and how they want them to go back to the vibe of S/T. Honestly, I don't really care what kind of vibe the band is going for on any of their albums (their diversity of theme and sentiment is one of the reasons they're my favorite band) as long as the songwriting is good. Every song on KNY is good or great. Gore? You've got like only half the album living up to that standard.

Never really come around on anything the band does. My first impressions are pretty much how I feel from then on. When I first heard S/T I was severely disappointed with how lazy the songwriting was and how samey it sounded. Outside of a few songs (Anniversary and WGTB being legit highlights) that album just did not display what this band is capable of. Gore is the same way. I noticed how good Chino's vocal deliveries on the album were even with that initial shitty rip. When I got the actual album and was able to listen to it on a good sound system, you can hear how great Sergio's contributions were (I'm not as sentimental as most people on the board and can say that, despite how great of a guy Chi was, Sergio is clearly the better bass player).

I don't know what I would blame Gore's lackluster quality on. Part of me thinks it was the producer. It's been clear in the past that the band can become unmotivated quite easily and that they need a good producer to keep them in line. That said, they've created some of their best stuff and their worst stuff with the same producer (Terry Date). So, it's likely a combination of factors.

Hell, the first minute and 10 seconds on Battle-Axe ALONE blows pretty much every riff on Koi out of the water.

Truth. I never really thought about it until you said it but damn it's true.

[defTHE1s]

Hell, the first minute and 10 seconds on Battle-Axe ALONE blows pretty much every riff on Koi out of the water.

Truth. I never really thought about it until you said it but damn it's true.

[Red Pill]

Gore and s/t sucks tho

[Inkblades]

If I had to choose between S/T and your life, I'd choose S/T every time.

[Red Pill]

If I had to choose between S/T and your life, I'd choose S/T every time.

f I had to choose between a rock and your life, I'd choose a rock every time.

[Inkblades]

That's obvious. You clearly smoke a lot of crack rocks.

[illthrowROCKS@U]

If I had to choose between S/T and your life, I'd choose S/T every time.

[BewareTheWater]

If I had to choose between S/T and your life, I'd choose S/T every time.

f I had to choose between a rock and your life, I'd choose a rock every time.

That's obvious. You clearly smoke a lot of crack rocks.

This is beautiful...

[snw9]

If I had to choose between S/T and your life, I'd choose S/T every time.

f I had to choose between a rock and your life, I'd choose a rock every time.

That's obvious. You clearly smoke a lot of crack rocks.

This is beautiful...

Inkblades, talk about hitting a new low hahahahahha

[Crazylegs]