Gore

[Inkblades]

S/T is their third best album after WP and ATF. Gore is in SNW territory, meaning that it has some excellent songwriting but production problems (but it's also a more cohesive album than SNW). Koi is their worst album. It's overly-produced style with minimal substance. But being that it's a Deftones album, it's still pretty good. None of this is opinion. This is all 100% Deftones fact. 

[illthrowROCKS@U]

S/T is unquestionably my favorite Deftones album. It's not even a close contest.

[Seven]

S/T is their third best album after WP and ATF. Gore is in SNW territory, meaning that it has some excellent songwriting but production problems (but it's also a more cohesive album than SNW). Koi is their worst album. It's overly-produced style with minimal substance. But being that it's a Deftones album, it's still pretty good. None of this is opinion. This is all 100% Deftones fact.

Consider the source...Band members ? Fans? S/T = lame

[N0S3BLEED976]

Gore is best tones

[Red Pill]

For me, Gore marks a low point in the Deftones career, and I'm not sure if they'll ever bounce back from it.  It sounds like a band trying to do their best Deftones impression between the music and lyrics.  Some songs like Gore and Doomed User are heavy for the sake of being heavy, but in the end not very compelling between bland riffs, strained vocals, and uninspired lyrics.  The whole album in fact is filled with pedestrian lyrics that ultimately say nothing and come off either forced or insipid.  Chino's faltering voice does nothing to push their immediacy either.  It appears the sedentary, unencumbered life, while making for a happier existence for the band, also makes for a boring performance that serves as merely the fulfillment of a servant obligation enabling the band to tour, get some press, and sell some outrageously-priced yet also uninspired merchandise.  It's a sad state of affairs, but after almost 30 years it's also not that much of a shocker.

100% !!!

[LG95]

Listened to Gore today. I still love the song writing and there's some killer stuff on it but honestly... if ever an album needed to be remixed and remastered and then re-released, it's this (well, apart from The Blackest Beautiful). I can't listen to it on anything other than the CD.

[77years]

Gore is a solid mindfuck and I'm glad people bitch about it because it's funny to read, and people bitching about it is better than them kicking their dog.

[stephtones]

I'm glad people bitch about it because it's funny to read, and people bitching about it is better than them kicking their dog.

http://youtu.be/2Oy6DwHAi70

[defTHE1s]

S/T is unquestionably my favorite Deftones album. It's not even a close contest.

And ATF 2nd, at least for me.

[O]

I'm glad people bitch about it because it's funny to read, and people bitching about it is better than them kicking their dog.

http://youtu.be/2Oy6DwHAi70

Haha

[snw9]

Gore is a solid mindfuck and I'm glad people bitch about it because it's funny to read, and people bitching about it is better than them kicking their dog.

Have to say, this was one of the funniest things I've read lately.

[Fred Bob]

Pretty mixed opinion's on it. The fan board's like this are usually passionate so it's a bit sad to see people become cynical about the merch and that. If a group like Deftones became that dispassionate about what they were creating, the album would reek of it. Maybe Chino overcompensates on the shrieking  (just listening back to S/T yesterday and it doesnt feel like he needs to do it on every song especially the heavier ones) but he doesnt seem any less passionate. Same goes for Abe, whereas Steph didn't embrace this sound or where they were going and it shows. Their albums are reactions to what is going on around them so sometimes what seems like a misstep album wise yields some of their best results, so I hope the next album gets Steph back working with the group, and them with him. Also he adds a lot more to the band than low end riffs and textures. I remember reading that the drums in Cherry Waves were his idea for instance.

Anyway, I know people are down on the mix which personally I dont have a problem with, just think Steph's guitar element is sorely missed. What do you all think of the lyrics and how they fit with the music? There are common themes on all their albums but I think some of the stuff here is superb. What I see is Prayer/Triangles being about using abstract themes to pull yourself out of 'this stasis', like mindfully focussing on something outside of yourself. Doomed User being something in the same vein, but he is fighting back against negative voices (many in his head), the punch-drunk flailing riff of the verse sounding like he is exhausted from constantly fighting back against them, then the awesome snappy riff really fighting back. This coming to fruition or actualization in L(MIRL) where he stops fighting it, realises that this person or voice was never really on his side, and "rests on the waves" "in this rebirth" . These idea's go through a few songs, similarly the song Gore itself, being in a dream and slipping through these gates - he is saying that this Gore, repulsive side of ourselves that we need to accept, that we are one of the gang but we'll slip through the gates someday - is about reconciling this side of yourself and forgiving....Phantom Bride last gasp attempt at help this person who "Can't rid of this thought of you rotting in" which could be himself or Steph for that matter. You cannot run or numb yourself from the emotion that underlies this thinking but you dont have to, and if you stand and face it you can over come it. All awesomely wrapped up by the positive outlook in Rubicon, that you need to take a leap of faith eventually and trust in the people around you. It sounds like its about the stage but "Face the lights" is pretty broad and shows the object was turning away from these positive influences.

Of course, this is my interpretation and could be completely wrong, if interpretations can be. I dont think Chino really writes about himself necessarily but even as he says he reacts to the music, he will unveil himself or things about himself unwittingly. What do you all think? Does the concept running through it make it more satisfying?

[Seven]

No.

[Fred Bob]

No.

lol

[stephtones]

I've seen Chino admit in an interview that he's literally googled his own lyrics just to see what they even were. There's also been multiple times he's mentioned that he doesn't have a lot to say.. and doesn't come across as an overly intricate lyricist to me, personally. He's often just vague and reuses common words and expressions and some fans over the years have taken to inventing convoluted explanations for things that likely have little to no deep meaning.

I personally think Steph has been bored for awhile and just smokes himself into oblivion these days and plays along to whatever Chino wants because he's too high to argue and or goes along with it for the paycheck to some degree. He's described Chino as somewhat of an egomaniac in the studio over the years and even said he wanted to learn solos at one point but felt Chino would come back in and want to change things even after doing that once he recorded them last.

[ANattyRat]

I've seen Chino admit in an interview that he's literally googled his own lyrics just to see what they even were. There's also been multiple times he's mentioned that he doesn't have a lot to say.. and doesn't come across as an overly intricate lyricist to me, personally. He's often just vague and reuses common words and expressions and some fans over the years have taken to inventing convoluted explanations for things that likely have little to no deep meaning.

I personally think Steph has been bored for awhile and just smokes himself into oblivion these days and plays along to whatever Chino wants because he's too high to argue and or goes along with it for the paycheck to some degree. He's described Chino as somewhat of an egomaniac in the studio over the years and even said he wanted to learn solos at one point but felt Chino would come back in and want to change things even after doing that once he recorded them last.

They've got a lot of songs, and if he hasn't played certain songs for a very long time, makes sense he'd need to google them to remind himself. My friend's in a band that hasn't even released a full album yet and he still forgets his own lyrics. I wouldn't take it as much. People do put intricate explanations on the lyrics, but I also know that Chino has said for a very long time that he doesn't really think much about the lyrics and the lyrics are more about how the music makes him feel, as opposed to him wanting to write about a specific topic. It's just his way of writing lyrics, everyone's got their own style, and it hasn't got anything to do with being dispassionate, because this is the way he's always wanted to do it.

As for Stef, he's the one who wasn't inspired or interested in putting forward any ideas while they were writing Gore anyway, until quite a while later. Chino probably is the one who has the final say, so they probably need to word on letting Stef's ideas have more space to grow and allow them more room to shine on the albums, but then again, this Chino/Stef stuff has also been there since basically White Pony, so...it doesn't seem like anything new or a lack of passion in making music. Maybe he is bored, but he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd stay in a band he doesn't want to be in, especially just for a paycheck.

[Fred Bob]

I've seen Chino admit in an interview that he's literally googled his own lyrics just to see what they even were. There's also been multiple times he's mentioned that he doesn't have a lot to say.. and doesn't come across as an overly intricate lyricist to me, personally. He's often just vague and reuses common words and expressions and some fans over the years have taken to inventing convoluted explanations for things that likely have little to no deep meaning.

I personally think Steph has been bored for awhile and just smokes himself into oblivion these days and plays along to whatever Chino wants because he's too high to argue and or goes along with it for the paycheck to some degree. He's described Chino as somewhat of an egomaniac in the studio over the years and even said he wanted to learn solos at one point but felt Chino would come back in and want to change things even after doing that once he recorded them last.

I was just listening to interviews yesterday where there were both saying as much as your saying, but then again Chino did say there was an order to the songs on this and that he recorded them in that order for Gore.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, and I dont think it's convoluted. He says it's open to interpretation and that is mine.

Do you think they will go on much longer as they are? If the problems they had with fighting during Gore, they will never make another album. DE felt like a second chance after Chi's tragedy, they surely do not have that in them again if things are as bad as people say.

[stephtones]

I've seen Chino admit in an interview that he's literally googled his own lyrics just to see what they even were. There's also been multiple times he's mentioned that he doesn't have a lot to say.. and doesn't come across as an overly intricate lyricist to me, personally. He's often just vague and reuses common words and expressions and some fans over the years have taken to inventing convoluted explanations for things that likely have little to no deep meaning.

I personally think Steph has been bored for awhile and just smokes himself into oblivion these days and plays along to whatever Chino wants because he's too high to argue and or goes along with it for the paycheck to some degree. He's described Chino as somewhat of an egomaniac in the studio over the years and even said he wanted to learn solos at one point but felt Chino would come back in and want to change things even after doing that once he recorded them last.

They've got a lot of songs, and if he hasn't played certain songs for a very long time, makes sense he'd need to google them to remind himself. My friend's in a band that hasn't even released a full album yet and he still forgets his own lyrics. I wouldn't take it as much. People do put intricate explanations on the lyrics, but I also know that Chino has said for a very long time that he doesn't really think much about the lyrics and the lyrics are more about how the music makes him feel, as opposed to him wanting to write about a specific topic. It's just his way of writing lyrics, everyone's got their own style, and it hasn't got anything to do with being dispassionate, because this is the way he's always wanted to do it.

I don't think Chino's dispassionate, I just don't think he's an overly intricate lyricist. As for Steph, I'm only basing my opinion on recent interviews where he mentioned battling depression with no support system in place. It doesn't exactly sound like a band that's unified or there for each other. I might be wrong and in this case I'd actually like to be,.. but still.

[stephtones]

Do you think they will go on much longer as they are? If the problems they had with fighting during Gore, they will never make another album. DE felt like a second chance after Chi's tragedy, they surely do not have that in them again if things are as bad as people say.

I think they have the talent and ability to make Deftones last as long as they want, personally. I do think Chino has stretched himself thin from a writing perspective with all of his various side projects but others might disagree. It's just how I see it.

[Fred Bob]

Do you think they will go on much longer as they are? If the problems they had with fighting during Gore, they will never make another album. DE felt like a second chance after Chi's tragedy, they surely do not have that in them again if things are as bad as people say.

I think they have the talent and ability to make Deftones last as long as they want, personally. I do think Chino has stretched himself thin from a writing perspective with all of his various side projects but others might disagree. It's just how I see it.

Yeah, I was surprised that Palms and Crosses didnt really hit the way I thought they would. I would have loved if Palms really stayed the course with the soothing side and didnt have any heavier parts, but thats just me.

It feels with Gore, Chino threw open the doorto different distortion within Deftones world, a bit rawer and less produced than what they have done before. Pittura is really the only song where I think the guitar just sounds badly engineered, kind of flat or too compressed. Listening to live versions of Gore you can really hear how Steph's tone was missing from the song on the album version. Maybe the album needed more time for him to work with the vibe. Still think it has opened new avenues though, at least backed them out of a corner in future.