PALMS [new Chino Moreno side project]

[Rally Sweat]

Love that line ('ascending into heaven, while staring into hell').

[alio die]

i love the moments that vaguely echo some deftones tracks. mission sunset and korea (It's yours). The riff towards the end of shortwave radio and passenger. anyone hear any other similarities?

[FlyingPiranha]

Much of this album feels like its the album I was waiting for the Deftones to make. I really wanted them to get exploratory and drawn out like these songs are. Some of the Deftones tracks achieve that but they don't have a whole album that is like that.

I love the album. My first full listen was amazing. I waited til my LP came in the mail.

I couldn't agree more. I was really hoping KNY would mine something like this kind of territory after hearing Rosemary and Tempest, but Palms is just the album I wanted to hear.

[pinkmaggit69]

The guitar at the very end of  Antarctic Handshake sounds like Chino....reminds me of the beginning of Minerva.

[NYRexall]

the more Chino is tempted to roll with his "sticky" melodies that have defined much of the last two Deftones albums. His vocals were always catchy, insofar as they were memorable and stayed with you, but the Chino of old was more adept at walking the line between abrasive and catchy, which is what made/makes him so brilliant. But with the "sticky" stuff of late, he seems to pick a melody that he likes, and then seems reluctant to stray too far from that hook

Couldn't agree with this more. That's what i miss in deftones. He doesn't move or play around with the hooks and melodies like he used to.

I have no idea what these "sticky melodies" are that you guys are referring to. Can you cite some examples of this problem you claim he has on the last two Deftones records...?

[jaypayton]

you people ball suck anything Chino does these days...Its another mediocre mellow subpar post 2009 Chino album with the same vocal style he has been using since that time. File this in with DE/KNY and Crosses...shit....oh and the music is completely ripping off The Cure 'Disintegration' album

[DeftonesNZ]

Yeah yeah cool story bro, anyway for people who didn't come here just to talk shit what songs are your favourite now you've had some time with the album? mine are Shortwave Radio, Mission Sunset and Antarctic Handshake. Shortwave and Mission are super addictive and Antarctic dreamy as fuck.

[Jesus2Chino]

I have no idea what these "sticky melodies" are that you guys are referring to. Can you cite some examples of this problem you claim he has on the last two Deftones records...?

Some of what I'm referring to is a bit intangible as it has to do with the melodic choices he makes, but I'm also referring to the vocal structure of songs. The best I can describe that "intangible element" is to say that if, for example, I were to be walking down the street singing Around the Fur or Korea, I would sound pretty awful without the context of those songs, even if I was spot on. Despite that, one listen to either song and they stay with you for a while. In contrast, vocals on much of the past two albums could be sung without that musical context and be considered catchy even to those who have  never had any listening experience with Deftones. I know that it sounds counter-intuitive to suggest that the problem with the newer vocals is that they stand on their own more, but I think that in a way that's just it. Deftones of old had that "intangible" quality, and a large part of that were these seemingly abrasive vocals that somehow came into harmony with and fully realized the music below. The vocals of the past two albums, in my opinion, largely (but definitely not entirely) lack that quality. You can definitely hear that difference when you compare the most "agreeable" melodies of past albums, like Be Quiet and Drive and Change, to their current "agreeable" counterparts like Sextape and Entombed. I'm not saying I dislike those songs, but they do have a very different quality. I'm also not saying that the band evolving is bad, as the dynamism of the band is a defining feature that I love, but I can say that from Adrenaline straight through much of SNW that intangible vocal quality was much more dominant. If you look at the Self-Titled album, it is nearly entirely driven by that quality, which is why it's such a polarizing album.

The most simple and evident structural difference between the past two albums and all the others vocally is the lack of unique or contrasting bridges. I can use many of the same songs mentioned before to illustrate. Songs like Entombed and Rocket Skates don't even have vocal bridges for example. I know that a lack of vocal bridge isn't unheard of for Deftones, take Minerva and Deathblow for example, but where those bridges were lacking that intangible quality compensated. That being said, thinking about songs like Fireal, Around the Fur, Korea, Pink Maggit, and When Girls Telephone Boys, I can't even imagine them without their bridges and/or distinct mid-song changes. They would certainly be a lot less interesting. I can't think of many songs on the past two albums that had defining and surprising moments like those, or that could compensate for their absence with that intangible quality (Rosemary and Royal come to mind for example). I can think of many many songs on those albums, however, that I kept waiting for those moments to hit and they never happened. I keep digging into Entombed, but that song is just a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's just the same thing over and over; and that one thing is pretty damn good, but not invariable throughout the whole five minutes. When the first hint of that bridge hit, I was really excited. It was musically very distinct from the minutes before it, and was generally surprising. Then the vocals come in, and it's simply the verse part, and then that exact same synth drum beat hits that announces all of the choruses, *bum-bubum-bubum-bum-bum*, and on goes the repetition. Compare that to a song like Digital Bath that just drips with that intangible quality. The bridge is basically just the verse part again, but damn does that intangible quality compensate for it--it literally makes that structurally dull bridge into this beautiful and unforgettable moment.

Anywho, I realize this is becoming too long and rant-ish, but it's difficult to describe what I meant in my earlier post. This is also just my subjective opinion, though I suspect a similar sentiment might explain at least some of the discontent in the community with the past two albums. For reference I don't dislike Diamond Eyes or Koi no Yokan, I think both have some solid songs on them, but I would have to place them below the five albums that preceded them in terms of my preferences. Lol, I have to harp on this fact to avoid flaming, but I'm not saying they're bad albums, I'm just saying I prefer the others if I had to rank all seven.

Much respect,
-Matt

[DeftonesNZ]

I think I get what you mean on his more recent work he's more predictable, and that's not meant in a negative way it is just that he doesn't really catch you by surprise as much as he used to. His vocals parts are still really tight he just doesn't go off on tangents that much any more. I'm of the thinking though that the music he has sung on recently doesn't really suit that sort of vocal exploration, that style was great on the older stuff because the instrumentals sort of did the same thing; they were more hectic and unpredictable Korea is a great example of that, but the newer stuff is more tight and groove based and I think he has just adjusted to suit that.On Entombed for example, if he starting straying all over the place it wouldn't sound right because of the consistency of the instrumentals.

I still think if  he had to write vocals for a song with more erratic instrumentals he would sing erratically to suit, his recent live performances of the older songs show he has still got the ability to play with his vocal range and explore sonically, I also think Palms was never going to be a project for that, style in my mind it was always going to be a project that used atmosphere rather than shock as it's style especially given the length of the songs, I think its evident by his delivery in these songs that is what they wanted to do, I think the songs are designed to be immersive and dreamy so Chino has gone for catchy lines and repetition to almost hypnotise the listener the instrumentals are much the same, the drums for example are are almost hypnotically steady.

[Jesus2Chino]

I actually was saying originally that Palms is a good example of Chino returning a bit to that intangible form, and I was suggesting that that return was guided by the more progressive structures the music or Palms presents; it didn't allow him to stick to a single hook, so he was forced in a way to use other (and in my opinion superior) methods of holding your interest.

Much respect,
-Matt

[DeftonesNZ]

Yeah I disagree though I think the songs only create that illusion because of there length, because the songs are so long  it seems like he is changing it up more than he has been and the songs do have more changes than his other recent work but they also have a lot of time for those changes, and when you take in to consideration how much longer some of these songs are he has actually been pretty conservative given the time he had to explore. He had 10min in some songs that kind of running length gives you the opportunity to switch between lots of different phases and given the possibilities this presented he really didn't do much with it.

Basically I don't think the progressive structures of the instrumentals has changed his style, I think if Deftones or any of his other side projects did a 10 min song now it would give off that same impression of increased variability purely because a longer song means more variation.

[Jesus2Chino]

Lol, I agree--we're more or less saying the same thing in different ways.

Much respect,
-Matt

[DeftonesNZ]

Haha yeah pretty much, This has got me thinking though I would really like to see Chino do a project that allows him to go as unorthodox as he likes with his vocals, these are all very beautiful songs and he has said in interviews he worries about his vocals ruining the instrumentals because they're so good by themselves,I think that might be making him conservative. I'd love to see some stuff that would allow him to do vocals more in the expansive style heard in Fist and Finger of Death where he can just wail and make strange noises,I think having simpler instrumentals would bring this out in him, I think of it as if you give him a blank canvas he can do whatever he wants to it whereas at the moment the canvas already has a beautiful painting on it so he just try's to cautiously finish it without ruining it.

[Hidalgo]

i really love ths album. reminds me a bit of disintegration. movie wise i think of labyrinth

[bewareofrats]

I got the actual cd now.  I got it at Sunrise Records.  Them and HMV were the only places that I'm aware of that were within my reach to get it in person.  Mainstream stores like Best Buy, Future Shop and Walmart were too lame.  Mission Sunset has grown on me since first listen.  I love the lengthy chill out period in it.  It's now between that and Future Warrior for best overall song.

[FlyingPiranha]

Antarctic Handshake alone makes this album worth it. It zones me out and I don't even realize almost 10 minutes have gone by.

[Bza々]

future warrior is dope af. This shit is so much better than KNY.

[shoop]

Can't believe no one has posted this or talked about it yet.. "Robotic Empire did a very limited run of our album on cassette. It includes a bonus demo version of Shortwave Radio. We'll have a few for sale with us at the upcoming live dates next week."

[shoop]

I just hope they release an mp3 of the demo for sale.. oh and "Harris says the band already has ideas for the next album, including having Moreno provide guitar tracks, as well as vocals." - http://www.sdcitybeat.com/sandiego/article-11957-the-death-and-rebirt.html

[pony_01]

Antartic Handshake at the end (when the drums kick in) in my opinion really sounds like Angels and Airwaves..