saturday night wrist

[iceache]

I dunno, I don't give 2 shits about whether an album sounds commercial or not. If it sounds good, then its good, if its shit, its shit.

Diamond Eyes is their best album since White Pony. Chi or no Chi.

[BillyNo.9]

Your opinion, whatever.  Maybe S/T and SNW haven't grown on you much since their releases?

[from_musings]

billy, you say that you probably wont like another deftones album again because of chi's absence, and then you go on saying that the record without chi (diamond eyes) is bad because it sounds commercial.do mean diamond eyes sounds more commercial because chi wasn't involved in the songwriting? we all want him back but you make it sound that chi stood for about 80% of the song writing and decided what turn deftones should take into a new album. that's not the case

[BillyNo.9]

you make it sound that chi stood for about 80% of the song writing and decided what turn deftones should take into a new album

Really?! he's not?

[from_musings]

that's it? that's your answer? ok. i just say this...we all like chi. he's awesome on stage and seems to be a very funny, down to earth, humble and likeable person. we all miss him dearly. but the're two other persons in that band that are more prominent in the songwriting. and then to confuse two things - our love for chi with that he was a prominent songwriter who had much to say about the deftones music and ways taken is to fool yourself. diamond eyes doesn't sound like it does because serg is there instead, it sounds like it does because it's another producer, the songs are written fast due to lack of time and perhaps they went on a more commercial line because they had a lot of debts to the label cause of the eros sessions. you're probably hooked on chi just because he plays the bass like you

[BillyNo.9]

it sounds like it does because it's another producer, the songs are written fast due to lack of time and perhaps they went on a more commercial line because they had a lot of debts to the label cause of the eros sessions. you're probably hooked on chi just because he plays the bass like you

So you hear it too? And Its not just that, he was the live energy in the band, way more so than Chino if you ask me, but hey it's just my opinion, which I' entitled to. I think Deftones without Chi is way  way less than Deftones with Chi

[from_musings]

it sounds like it does because it's another producer, the songs are written fast due to lack of time and perhaps they went on a more commercial line because they had a lot of debts to the label cause of the eros sessions. you're probably hooked on chi just because he plays the bass like you

So you hear it too?

yes de is another step or direction for deftones, but as you see i don't mention chi as a factor. you're talking about live shows, playing already recording material

[BillyNo.9]

The recorded album sounds different too, obviously. Too pristine  as others have said. Chi's absence is very noticeable in the music IMO as a bassist I pay closer attention to the bass in their music, and Sergio's technique ain't doing it for me either. Most of the bass on DE is the same as the guitar and the pick sucks. I do like Quicksand, just not in my Deftones.

[from_musings]

always ppl who find good reasons why they don't like dianomd eyes. a bass player blames it on that chi is gone,the fashion conscious think chino sings like shit, although he's really disturbed that chino dresses ugly in this era and the racist blame serg cause he's black etc.

look for other things too! if not - keep your fingers crossed for eros then

[BillyNo.9]

Its not the only reason. The production is way different. Trying new shit and experimenting and shit is great etc, but I don't like it this time. Who's blamed it on Sergio being black?

[from_musings]

i think he called himself KKKtones or something.the main thing though -  it's chino and steph who write most part of the music and it's when they get it together, it gets good.if they don't come up with good stuff the record will be bad. it's not about if chi get it together imo. Abe's drums were great on snw - wasn't a good record anyway. Frank's effects are phenomenal on d.e, but still far from one of their better albums. the production is pretty terrible on adrenaline but it's deftones at their finest. i'm sure you like songs on other records where chi follows steph and you dig em 

[iceache]

Your opinion, whatever.  Maybe S/T and SNW haven't grown on you much since their releases?

I love S/T, but I think SNW is a Piece of shit.

[There Will Be Blood]

its alright, nothing special. I do enjoy it tho.

[snw9]

SNW didnt sell much but it sure sounds great, each song is original in its own way

[BillyNo.9]

the main thing though -  it's chino and steph who write most part of the music and it's when they get it together, it gets good

I know that, just Sergio isn't complementing the music the way Chi does.

i'm sure you like songs on other records where chi follows steph and you dig em  

)0

Theres shitloads of songs where Chi just follows Steph but he'll add the smallest detail to gain massive effect ( WGTB bass slides at the end, tiny detail makes it sounds so much more better ) I doubt Sergio would ever come up with basslines like Cherry waves or Bloody Cape or Change.

The point I'm trying to make is anyone who tries to replace Chi with any style other than his, whether it be Victor Wooten, Bootsy Collins or Flea, Will not get the same atmosphere Chi does.  

[from_musings]

the secondary members like abe, frank, chi and serge are dependent on that steph and chino come up with something good they can expand on. they can make a good song a little better, but they can never make a bad song good (just like abe in snw and frank on d.e). in wgtb, I also love the final touch chi does, but the song would still be great without it. Chi's bass in the verse of cherry waves is cool and all but since chino put out the worst chorus in deftones history in it, it's still a terrible song (the worst deftones song imo)

what I am saying is that I think you go too far when you say deftones never can be good again without chi, it's preposterous, when he mostly adds some cool extra stuff. My theory is that you only see this through a bass players eyes and forget the big picture. open your eyes and ears, get into all of it and be a music lover not only a bass lover  

[from_musings]

also: I heard an interview with the chi long ago where they talked about songwriting. He said that the few times he had come with song for deftones, chino had one time said "nah, it sounds too much like a regular deftones song" and the other time chi came up with a song chino said "nah, doesn 't sound like deftones enough "so chi said" aight fuck it " and didn't bother anymore. his own words. you try to make it into that chi the songwriter, who don't have much to say in the process, would be crucial for deftones future if he's not around? that's where I don't agree with you, cool endings or not.

[BillyNo.9]

I play guitar as well man so I am seeing it through 3 sets of eyes. Bassist, Guitarist and total fanboy. I hope you never join a band with the mentality of secondary members and shit XD I doubt that every recorded song of theirs' guitar parts were thought up by Steph and Chino. You see how into the music Chi is and no one can be so captivated in the moment as Chi was on stage. I can think what I want man, I'm not coming here preaching theories constantly man, I'm just putting in my 2 cents and not looking for a debate on every fucking thing I saw, which bring me to my next point...

My theory is that you only see this through a bass players eyes and forget the big picture.

Your theory is wrong bro  

[from_musings]

I doubt that every recorded song of theirs' guitar parts were thought up by Steph and Chino.

for most part. i'm trying to make a point here

I hope you never join a band with the mentality of secondary members and shit

I have no problem saying that a person is more important than me, whether it concerns a band, job, group of friends or whatever. everyone can't be exactly as important as everyone else in a group. that would be lying to ourselves.

[TheyCallMeP]

SNW is still growing on me, its very hit or miss in my opinion but the "miss" songs still have their moments. I feel like Combat doesn't really go anywhere for me and I don't like the cherry waves chorus. However it does have some of my favorite Deftones songs on it as well. I wish Buffalo would have had some lyrics and got put on the album somewhere to make a 13 track disc.