Deftones' highest point of their careers

[lostpilot]

Yesterday in a conversation with a close friend who is and was Deftones fan like me we both realized, finally, that self-titled is their masterpiece, their highest point of creativity.

I believe that with this album they have gained their maturity, image, style.
This was also the best choice for the cover art - as for the vines and roses and a skull represents deeply the album's atmosphere and feel. It's dark, it's poetic, it's rather philosophical, it's royal.

Well, but this is my personal belief. Thoughts?

[Jerry_Curls]

I concur. It feels like White Pony was totally left-field for them and exciting, but S/T is where they established a deeper, more mature sound. Then with SNW and DE, it feels like they haven't really expanded, but just kept at a consistent pace [not saying those aren't great albums, but I don't hear different ideas that make me say WHAT???" ]  I have to say "Anniversary Of An Uninteresting Event"is one of their most amazing songs. So ambient, shows the true creativity of Deftones.

EDIT: And I love how at times, the vocals get lost in the music, just drift off into the back then come back up to the front. The guitars blend to make a wall of sound. The drums slowed down in some songs, the Abe's syncopated style of drumming is perfected on this album. The bass is always creeping up, a brooding kind of sound. Frank's effects are subtle, but make a huge impact. I love how none of the songs sound like they are written to be singles. Amazing album.

[BillyNo.9]

I first got into Deftones via Around the fur and It is still by far my favourite album, but I do understand what you mean. ST took a while to grow on me but now it has it's impossible to shake it off I think White pony was their peak though, it was the breakthrough. I know the real fans were still going ape shit about self titled when it came out but it seems as if tv megazines etc didnt give a fuck, which I think is pretty cool in a way. To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.

[Vesanic]

I agree. White Pony is my favorite, but I've gotta say their natural explosive heaviness got the shaft on that record, except on Elite and Korea maybe. That's why the self-titled is perhaps better on the sound point, they researched a special imagery and vibe, just like they did with White Pony, but they kept their heaviness, they actually got heavier than ever.

[people_r_fake529]

I first got into Deftones via Around the fur and It is still by far my favourite album, but I do understand what you mean. ST took a while to grow on me but now it has it's impossible to shake it off I think White pony was their peak though, it was the breakthrough. I know the real fans were still going ape shit about self titled when it came out but it seems as if tv megazines etc didnt give a fuck, which I think is pretty cool in a way. To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.

To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.

Brilliant statement Billy.  It's what I've been trying to say all along and is one of the reasons why I love the Deftones and they are one of my favorite bands.  That is one major thing about them that makes them unique and stand out from all of the other bands. 

[Corleone]

If i'm not mistaken, after S/t was also when Chino stopped doing drugs.

Terry Date is needed to make better albums.

[Inkblades]

He said he experimented with speed during the making of SNW in an interview.

[mrpelon94]

My response to that is all there albums stand on there own..and diamond eyes being the heaviest album only to assure that more is coming...see how there gonna top this is exciting...I can only imagine how Eros is gonna sound..

[Penicks]

He said he experimented with speed during the making of SNW in an interview.

and bob ezrin found a meth pipe at one point, which is the reason the demos never materialized

right? i thought it was something like that.

[lostpilot]

I first got into Deftones via Around the fur and It is still by far my favourite album, but I do understand what you mean. ST took a while to grow on me but now it has it's impossible to shake it off I think White pony was their peak though, it was the breakthrough. I know the real fans were still going ape shit about self titled when it came out but it seems as if tv megazines etc didnt give a fuck, which I think is pretty cool in a way. To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.

To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.

Brilliant statement Billy.  It's what I've been trying to say all along and is one of the reasons why I love the Deftones and they are one of my favorite bands.  That is one major thing about them that makes them unique and stand out from all of the other bands. 

yep, what a wonderful statement. I see that most people still choose White Pony over s/t. I can definitely understand you, it's all subjective. Just for me White Pony is still, incomplete. Plus, I always loved the dark dark Deftones (Fireal, Fist, Lovers, s/t, Knife Party, Riviere, You've Seen the Butcher). I hope they make something THAT dark again. Eros? who knows.

[MommaBear]

As far as touring and live performances, they really seem to be on top of their game at this point in their career. 

[Robotsatemygrandma]

I first got into Deftones via Around the fur and It is still by far my favourite album, but I do understand what you mean. ST took a while to grow on me but now it has it's impossible to shake it off I think White pony was their peak though, it was the breakthrough. I know the real fans were still going ape shit about self titled when it came out but it seems as if tv megazines etc didnt give a fuck, which I think is pretty cool in a way. To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.

To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.

Brilliant statement Billy.  It's what I've been trying to say all along and is one of the reasons why I love the Deftones and they are one of my favorite bands.  That is one major thing about them that makes them unique and stand out from all of the other bands. 

yep, what a wonderful statement. I see that most people still choose White Pony over s/t. I can definitely understand you, it's all subjective. Just for me White Pony is still, incomplete. Plus, I always loved the dark dark Deftones (Fireal, Fist, Lovers, s/t, Knife Party, Riviere, You've Seen the Butcher). I hope they make something THAT dark again. Eros? who knows.

I'd like you to elaborate on White Pony being incomplete. kthanx lol

I dunno about ST being the epitome of their careers, if anything, I sorta feel as though it followed a formula. Like, oh here's a Change mimic, and a Elite clone. Experimental, mellow, 2 agro songs, just like WP. Almost like a complete clone. I wouldn't blame Maverick for trying the same formula since WP was such an epic bottle of win. Kinda like fucking the same girl twice with the 2nd time being lame as fuck, as far as money is involved.

But please don't get me wrong, ST is still a great album.

We all know WP was a huge cock slap to the face of Nu Metal. An awesome cock slap.

But I really wanna point out the drastic change on SNW. Honestly, I feel this album, musically, is amazing. Ezrin really helped them change from their typical 2-4 riff song structures to more expansive territories.

Honestly I cannot pinpoint a high point of their career until I feel they have begun a descent. Then I think I'll be able to answer the question. Hopefully never.

[Robotsatemygrandma]

As far as touring and live performances, they really seem to be on top of their game at this point in their career. 

I couldn't disagree more. When I saw them touring between ST and SNW, they seemed not to care at all. Chino was all whacked out and Steph couldn't of given a shit less. Then again I first saw them at Ozzfest 99 and again touring for WP with Glassjaw. Most intense performances I've ever seen from them.

[lostpilot]

Yes, White ony was an awesome cock slap to the face of nu-metal. But do I care about nu-metal? No, I care about the dark and romantic identity of theirs. White Pony is still too anxious for me. Plus, the beginning - I really dislike "Back to School" and what they did with it by the wishes or Warner Bros. And it contains songs like Elite that I cannot enjoy anymore. Not in that musical phase anymore; somehow; but it's entirely my subjective opinion and I find no need to defend my opinion or to destroy yours. Live and let live.

[MommaBear]

As far as touring and live performances, they really seem to be on top of their game at this point in their career. 

I couldn't disagree more. When I saw them touring between ST and SNW, they seemed not to care at all. Chino was all whacked out and Steph couldn't of given a shit less. Then again I first saw them at Ozzfest 99 and again touring for WP with Glassjaw. Most intense performances I've ever seen from them.

I hesitated to post this because each individual response is going to vary and be a matter of personal preference.  I can see the appeal of the crazy, careless, FTW, balls-to-the-wall performances of the earlier years - it's just raw and in-your-face, and I get that.  On the flip side, I also appreciate the current trend where Chino hits notes on a consistent basis and isn't whacked out of gourd.  I also like the maturity that has occurred wherein they seem to be operating as a whole.  Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

[rock_n_frost]

i wouldnt call white pony as nu-metal..
I mean Digital Bath ?!..
This song is something else..Pink Maggit, Knife prty, rx queen...
ST is really deep,dark and melancolic with awesome riffs..
But White Pony is sooo special and that album made Deftones sound like NOTHING

[Robotsatemygrandma]

Yes, White ony was an awesome cock slap to the face of nu-metal. But do I care about nu-metal? No, I care about the dark and romantic identity of theirs. White Pony is still too anxious for me. Plus, the beginning - I really dislike "Back to School" and what they did with it by the wishes or Warner Bros. And it contains songs like Elite that I cannot enjoy anymore. Not in that musical phase anymore; somehow; but it's entirely my subjective opinion and I find no need to defend my opinion or to destroy yours. Live and let live.

Lol I was just being cute, no worries I respect your opinion. And I agree with you about the Back to School problem. I only own the Red version and never downloaded Back to School. I was like, "Fuck you Madonna, I ain'ts gunna by dis shit agin in silver!"

But I get it, I can hear the anxious nature of the album, but again it's called White Pony. But I still really love the dark brooding nature they can evoke on Lovers, Fireal/Swords (lol) and Fist. It's sensual and descriptive.

[lostpilot]

"Fuck you Madonna, I ain'ts gunna by dis shit agin in silver!"

Hah, this is priceless. FUCK YOU, MADONNA.

[Robotsatemygrandma]

As far as touring and live performances, they really seem to be on top of their game at this point in their career.  

I couldn't disagree more. When I saw them touring between ST and SNW, they seemed not to care at all. Chino was all whacked out and Steph couldn't of given a shit less. Then again I first saw them at Ozzfest 99 and again touring for WP with Glassjaw. Most intense performances I've ever seen from them.

I hesitated to post this because each individual response is going to vary and be a matter of personal preference.  I can see the appeal of the crazy, careless, FTW, balls-to-the-wall performances of the earlier years - it's just raw and in-your-face, and I get that.  On the flip side, I also appreciate the current trend where Chino hits notes on a consistent basis and isn't whacked out of gourd.  I also like the maturity that has occurred wherein they seem to be operating as a whole.  Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Dude was also forgetting lyrics when I saw them. Then again I think it might of been the last leg of the tour where all you wanna do is be done and go home. It really wasn't enjoyable for me. BUT! When I saw them last year, I was excited. they just started, and you could tell they were hyped and having fun. It was contagious and their performance was just as intense as when I first saw them.

[DEFinatelydeftones,fsho]

Yesterday in a conversation with a close friend who is and was Deftones fan like me we both realized, finally, that self-titled is their masterpiece, their highest point of creativity.

I believe that with this album they have gained their maturity, image, style.
This was also the best choice for the cover art - as for the vines and roses and a skull represents deeply the album's atmosphere and feel. It's dark, it's poetic, it's rather philosophical, it's royal.

Well, but this is my personal belief. Thoughts?

I believe it is too. Regardless of what the band went through at the time or what the other 90% of ppl on here think. My personal favorite