DEFTONES 2.0?

[bodywars9000]

Hey all. Just sharing something on my mind, let me know what you think. Sharing....lungs? Stick with me here....

ATF is probably MY personal favorite record, and i love watching the live performances from the 97-98 era as well. I burn up the youtube watching deftones live videos as i'm sure many or most of you do as well, and something i feel like i already knew kinda snapped into place earlier today, while watching live performances of Around the Fur (the song).
I watched many many vids, from 1997-2010, and realized that i kinda HATE the way this song sounds when they play it now. Now this could be any older song, i just picked ATF cuz, like a scientific experiment, you need a constant and a variable to reach a hypothesis. The song ATF being the constant and the time period performed in being the variable, obviously.
So, like i said, i kinda HATE it now, and i think i have for the past 3-4 years or so, i'm just finally ready to admit it. I love Deftones so much, i guess i had to go through a sort of grieving process...denial...anger...etc. now i'm at acceptance and here's my hypothesis for why this has happened.
2 things, both having to do with Chino...at first i thought it was the missing Chi, but i think now it's mainly Chino.

Number one: Chino's voice. Obviously we all know that Chino's voice has changed drastically starting at around the middle of the Self Titled tours. I know that he injured his vocal chords at some point, though i forget when, but IMO if anything put the nail in the "awesome screaming" coffin, it was that tour, performing Hexagram every night definitely didn't help his voice. It was around this time that his screaming started turning into more of a "screeching", and i'm talking about the exhaled screams. Also he started using the inhale as more of a crutch intsead of just an option to accentuate certain parts of songs. Now, i am not downing his vocals, as a matter of fact, i think that his vocals although bad if not terrible at end of ST tours(possibly due to his weight), got consistently better and better (from a technical standpoint) from that point on. SNW came out, and Chino seemed to have a much greater control of his voice in higher octaves, like for example in HITE, even using voice breaks systematically (the technique used as in yodeling for transitioning abruptly between octaves) and just all around singing-wise. However, for the first time, we were introduced to an album with a "screeching Chino" instead of a "screaming Chino". For the record, other than Mein and Pink Cellphone (mostly the buttfucking part...i mean wtf), i really love that album. So, although i love his older singing style, which i'll refer to as "drunken crooning" and his older screaming style, which i'll refer to as "wild animal", i noticed a change in both.

Number two: Chino's performance. As we also know, Chino has a history of being a quite erratic, unprofessional, and extremely passionate and open performer. I admire these qualities, to me signs of a true artist.  The only times in the past i have seen him break this "persona", are during certain televised performances (not all). It seems to me that in certain high pressure situations, where "all eyes" are on Chino, he gets kind of self concious, and chokes a bit. He tried too hard to make himself look cool while singing, which he does naturally in the first place. Starting with the SNW tours, he began to turn into what i'll call "2 cool 4 school Chino". This is where we're at now. Instead of speaking in hushed hurried whispers on songs like Lhabia, or Rickets,  like he used to do, all knelt down mysterious-like, he now shouts these parts standing tall and with a certain smugness, alot of the emotion seems to be gone from these performances, i mean, he used to get INTENSELY into it, and it was obvious. Now before you label me a hater, or hate me for labeling Chino (which i did only for clarity), hear me out, here's my point:

I think that Chino, in dealing with an injured voice (injured from giving us 10 plus years of the most amazing performances of all time, i might add), age, health, sobriety or changes in habit, and also the advent of a time where a hundred people at every concert are holding their camera phones high, fixated on Chino (i mean check out any of the youtube clips of mid SNW to now, it's sometimes hard to see the band through the sea of glowing screens), Chino has become, for the most part, a fundamentally different performer/vocalist than the one i personally got to know and love.... HOWEVER: I actually love Diamond Eyes, and when i watch performances of any song from that album, to me, they're phenomenal, this is where i'd get on board with everyone saying "Chino sounds better than he has in years" or something to that effect. So, to review, 2010 Deftones performing an older song that i love, makes me uncomfortable, and dissapointed. 2010 Deftones performing 2010 Deftones songs: AWESOME. It's a different animal. Chino trying to perform songs from a previous era at this point is like him trying to act like something/someone he's not anymore, while adversely he embraces and has much fire in his belly while performing songs he helped write since having fully "evolved"(DE). Chi's accident most likely contributed as well to his mindset, but as i said before, i feel alot of this began at the middle/end of ST tours.
In conclusion, personally, i'm not sure i even want to hear some of the older stuff live anymore, it feels like digging my dead lover out of the ground and hugging the lifeless shell, trying to reanimate the corpse instead of just being thankful for all the amazing memories. Hearing the new stuff live feels like i have accepted that DEFTONES are dead, long live the DEFTONES 2.0. (for the record, i'm not advocating calling them DEFTONES 2.0, that's fuckin' retarded, i'm just using it to make a point.)

I'm sure i'll catch all kinds of heat for this, though i hope i'm not misunderstood, these are just opinions, i tried to be clear and i hope you enjoyed reading.
For those of you  that may attack me for the (i'll admit), extreme length of this post:
IF YOU WANT TO READ POSTS CONTAINING ONLY 156 CHARACTERS OR WTF EVER, GO TO TWITTER, I'LL STICK WITH SHARING LUNGS.

[pinkmaggit69]

I would agree that the intensity is more present with the new songs, but I feel like that's been the same with their latest record all throughout their career.

But then again, here's a ten year old song that sounds better now then it did then:
Deftones - Elite Live fryshuset - Arenan Sweden

[rock_n_frost]

elite song can easly fuck your voice..
well done chino...

im gonna read your post bodywars...today..


EDIT : I hope...

[Penicks]

You're forgetting drugs and booze. Chino's pretty much sober now on stage.

[Mikey]

TL;DR

[DEFinatelydeftones,fsho]

I would agree that the intensity is more present with the new songs, but I feel like that's been the same with their latest record all throughout their career.

But then again, here's a ten year old song that sounds better now then it did then:
Deftones - Elite Live fryshuset - Arenan Sweden

You made your point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheQuietDoom46]

I took the time to read your post and you made some valid points for sure. I've noticed exactly what your talking about. My response to this is that I think it's just Chino getting older and more mature now. He's really passionate about the new record which I think has basically brought about a new style to his swagger if you will. The crouching, inhale screams, and his old swagger I think are gone for good at this point. That's the old Chino, this is the new one. So when he does the older songs like ATF, Rickets, Bloody Cape, and whatever else, he's going to put the new Chino swagger into it, which primarily does seem less passionate than before. On the other hand, I think he's still being passionate, again just with his new 2010 swagger. I could be totally wrong here, but this is just me observing from the concert in Clifton Park, NY this year, as well as YT videos. I will agree again with you though, I do miss that 1998-2003 swagger he had, but I suppose it's time to embrace the new Chino. Cuz he's still a bad motherfucker. 

[bodywars9000]

I took the time to read your post and you made some valid points for sure. I've noticed exactly what your talking about. My response to this is that I think it's just Chino getting older and more mature now. He's really passionate about the new record which I think has basically brought about a new style to his swagger if you will. The crouching, inhale screams, and his old swagger I think are gone for good at this point. That's the old Chino, this is the new one. So when he does the older songs like ATF, Rickets, Bloody Cape, and whatever else, he's going to put the new Chino swagger into it, which primarily does seem less passionate than before. On the other hand, I think he's still being passionate, again just with his new 2010 swagger. I could be totally wrong here, but this is just me observing from the concert in Clifton Park, NY this year, as well as YT videos. I will agree again with you though, I do miss that 1998-2003 swagger he had, but I suppose it's time to embrace the new Chino. Cuz he's still a bad motherfucker. 

Yep, i pretty much agree with all that. Swagger's a good way to put it. Thanx for taking the time to read and reply. The great thing about missing that old performance style is you don't have to go far to see it whenever you please, all the awesome fans from around the world and on SL make it readily viewable. Although i'm a bit sad i won't get to see "that" live and in person, i can watch it when i wish. I'm super excited to see DEFTONES come around for their headlining american tour, whenever that is, hopefully SOOOOON.

[TheQuietDoom46]

if anything too, he's more energetic on stage now than I think he ever was. 

[TheShade1989]

You make some good points. I watched a lotta the performances of ATF and MX and everything frm back then and he seems a hell of a lot more intense and energetic and eveything. But he's older now and ppl change, so he still has the energy and the passion in my opinion, but he isnt in the same frame of mind as he was at that point, so I guess that shows wen he's singing those songs live. I definitely have no issues with it though, it's not something I hate, it's just...different.

[TheQuietDoom46]

You make some good points. I watched a lotta the performances of ATF and MX and everything frm back then and he seems a hell of a lot more intense and energetic and eveything. But he's older now and ppl change, so he still has the energy and the passion in my opinion, but he isnt in the same frame of mind as he was at that point, so I guess that shows wen he's singing those songs live. I definitely have no issues with it though, it's not something I hate, it's just...different.

Indeed. Another good point here I should have mentioned. He isnt in the same frame of mind anymore when he wrote those songs. That's why you see more passion and a new style with the new songs, where as the older songs there's passion, just not the same as the passion he had for them in 98-03 era. Good point all around. : )

[Rxx]

I also miss the good old lyrics.. more misterious than now.

[yeah]

ATF era now = classic... you can't expect the same these days.  I think he fully gives himself to performances, sweaty exhausted every f**king single concert. I have no reasons to blame him. Theyl still doing their way in this competitive world of music we should be gratеful for.

ps. I bet Chino has never researched himself as you do

[bodywars9000]

Don't be snarky. I wasn't "blaming him" either, for anything, and agree with pretty much everything you guys are all saying, actually some of it was inferred in my original post.
BTW i don't "research Chino". It just so happens that when you listen to one band predominantly for over a decade, it's pretty hard not to notice things like a MAJOR CHANGE IN PERFORMANCE STYLE and VOCALS. I'm not a rocket skates scientist lol.

My whole point was basically that it's almost like there's two versions of the band, and i like both.

I think he is more energetic, but in a more athletic way. Obviously he's older now so he can't throw himself around, pouncing at the audience while screaming like a  nut, or climb 20 foot speakers and do flips into the crowd. Well i guess he could but it probably would'nt be a good idea in the long run. I miss that stuff. At the same time, he still "dances", and runs and jumps around like crazy, which is pretty much just as entertaining in a different way.

As i've heard Chino say in interviews countless times, their main goal is longevity,  I'm sure abusing his body and voice is something he's grown out of, partially out of necessity.

P.S. wow, Penicks came out of his shell and actually typed something coherent and spelled correctly!!! Good job!!! Too bad he didn't realize i already mentioned Chino's sobriety in the top of the second to last paragraph. 

[Penicks]

eh fuck you buddy

[Vesanic]

P.S. wow, Penicks came out of his shell and actually typed something coherent and spelled correctly!!!

When Penicks types something incoherent and hugely mispelled, it's most of the time to show the irony of what he writes.

[bodywars9000]

I KNOOOOWWWW!

I wUz bEinGz aN iRonNNiC alsO!

[from_musings]

In conclusion, personally, i'm not sure i even want to hear some of the older stuff live anymore, it feels like digging my dead lover out of the ground and hugging the lifeless shell, trying to reanimate the corpse instead of just being thankful for all the amazing memories.

That metaphor was pretty neat. But i dont' feel the same, I've seen deftones 2 times the last 6 months and I would hate if they just played later material. it's actually the adrenaline songs that sound the best in my ears only play recent stuff is like denying their entire career. no, play something for everyone in the audience.the idea of ONLY hearing diamond eyes songs and snw-tracks at a concert makes me a little ill 

[from_musings]

Number one: Chino's voice. Obviously we all know that Chino's voice has changed drastically starting at around the middle of the Self Titled tours. I know that he injured his vocal chords at some point, though i forget when,

he ruined his voice in 2001 ... you can hear it clearly on the live performances of music in high places show.the dvd when they jerk around in hawaii. his voice constantly cracks at that gig

[bodywars9000]

Yeah well i was exaggerating a bit for affect with that metaphor. I don't think they should stop playing ANY material, it's just that especially on certain songs, the delivery is weird to me but not in a good way.

But i mean, if you pick any one part of my post and single it out, i probably seem like a dick or an idiot, i think most of you guys got what i was saying overall.

I'm just glad to have spurned conversation, if we disagree on certain points, that's good. Agreeing all the time can be boring. Some of what i stated was fact, but much of it is just opinions.

I can't wait till they headline, i think it will be more to my liking. I'm really not that used to them playing for only an hour or less.

As far as his voice, yea i remember i used to have that DVD, probably the only Deftones thing i ever bought and was disspointed. But his voice sounds fine to me on the self-titled record, especially on Good Morning Beautiful, WGTB, and Hexagram.