My Slightly Harsh Reaction to Diamond Eyes

[buddyboy101]

Hey folks, I've been anxiously awaiting this album for years now.  I've only listened to the album four or five times straight through.  Here are my initial reactions.

I think it's by far the most straight forward album from the Deftones.  The songs are very consistent and related.  Consequently, the album doesn't have the peaks and troughs of their past work.  I think WP set the template of having a rager (Elite, WGTB, Rats), an electronic track (Teenager, Lucky You, Pink Cellphone), and a cameo (Maynard, Rey Osbourn, Serj).  When Cheng got in the accident, the band was in sink/swim mode.  They chose swim and had no choice but to write a very quick album, lest two more years go by, further risking their relevance.  Because of this, they didn't have time to include the constitutional rager/techno/cameo tracks.  

They also didn't have time to overthink things and dilute their ideas.  So what we get is a very straightforward, primal album.  There's definitely a cohesion too it.  Maybe too much, to the point where some songs fail to retain the unique identity found in their past albums.  But maybe my appreciation will grow with time.  

Stephen continues to pursue his goal of being the bassist of Deftones.  Perhaps the guitars a little too low this time around.  They sound almost sludgy.  I miss the bright, shrill, slightly clashing tones he achieved in ATF/WP/ST.  His riffing has become much more staccato and rhythmically disjointed.  Perhaps intentionally.

That said, there are definitely some killer tracks.

DE - Good song. Reminds me of Minerva (uplifting, breathtaking)

Royal - The rhythm/melody of Chino's verses remind me of his chorus on Korea ("complex priestess come down" = "night time cav'ty come in"). Great, primal verses, anticlimatic chorus.  The breakdown at 2:25 reminds me of that in Riviere at 2:15.  The ending is killer "take meeee" wooah!

Cmd/Ctrl - Same thing: great syncopated verse, forgetful chorus.

YSTB - straight up a stoner rock song a la QOTSA.  

Beauty School - absolutely gorgeous; single-worthy

Prince - the masterpiece of the album.  Shrill, mysterious, and a mega-chorus.  Frank slays on this one.

Rocket Skates - solid live track, silly chorus (guns/razor/knives?!)

Sextape - another gorgeous opus.  Too many references to "waves" though.

Risk - sounds like a b-side

976 - fantastic verse, questionable chorus.

TPID - the best Deftones closer ever.  Abe slams the toms.  An all-around great song.


So that's where I'm at right now.  Overall I like the album, but I'm frankly surprised by the fanatic reception.  Perhaps the tragic context (Cheng, for whom I pray daily) has overstated its merit.  

I'd love to hear your thoughts and reaction to the album!  

[Jesus2Chino]

I always think of Korea on Royal as well. I'd have to disagree about This Place is Death as the best closer ever though. I like the song, but not as a closer at all. On the same note, I like Diamond Eyes, but I'm on the fence about its qualities as an opening track. I also love Risk, so I'm not feeling you there--Risk makes me think of Chi for whatever reason, I feel like that one is for him. I've been skating around with this album a lot--it is DEFINITELY a great album to listen to while in motion. In the car it shines, but on a longboard it's fantastic. Finding out things like that really help me bond with an album, so Diamond Eyes is well on it's way for me.

Much respect,
-Matt

[buddyboy101]

I always think of Korea on Royal as well. I'd have to disagree about This Place is Death as the best closer ever though. I like the song, but not as a closer at all. On the same note, I like Diamond Eyes, but I'm on the fence about its qualities as an opening track. I also love Risk, so I'm not feeling you there--Risk makes me think of Chi for whatever reason, I feel like that one is for him. I've been skating around with this album a lot--it is DEFINITELY a great album to listen to while in motion. In the car it shines, but on a longboard it's fantastic. Finding out things like that really help me bond with an album, so Diamond Eyes is well on it's way for me.

Much respect,
-Matt

I agree with your motion sentiment.  I was bumpin the album while crusin the 405 last night, and it just felt right.  Help me appreciate Risk!  I'm glad we made the wait, buddy.

[wax]

 They chose swim and had no choice but to write a very quick album, lest two more years go by, further risking their relevance.  Because of this, they didn't have time to include the constitutional rager/techno/cameo tracks.  

They also didn't have time to overthink things and dilute their ideas.  So what we get is a very straightforward, primal album.  There's definitely a cohesion too it.  Maybe too much, to the point where some songs fail to retain the unique identity found in their past albums.  But maybe my appreciation will grow with time.  

Stephen continues to pursue his goal of being the bassist of Deftones.  Perhaps the guitars a little too low this time around.  They sound almost sludgy.  I miss the bright, shrill, slightly clashing tones he achieved in ATF/WP/ST.  His riffing has become much more staccato and rhythmically disjointed.  Perhaps intentionally.

the constitutional song, any of those 3, wouldve taken away from the cohesion. and im not sure how much writing it quickly played into it sounding 'cohesive' as much as outside influence namely the producer... personally i think the songs have a unique quality each to their own.   even if they flow into each other.     i want to see how the vinyl is split.   the album reminds  me more of how albums were made before cds got so popular; an a side and a b side rather than trying to fit as much music and fill up as much time on a cd.....


stephens 8 string does give it a more 'bassy sound' i think he still used a 6 on atf and then a 7 on wp.  the 8 is still a guitar, yet a different instrument in a way also. i think the staccato and disjointed feel is the meshugah influence.

[Jesus2Chino]

Here's my take on Risk, maybe it will make you appreciate it more, maybe not. This is just my interpretation; whether or not it's what Chino meant to say is pretty irrelevant I suppose, as it's what the song means to me.

When I listen to Risk, I think of the first verse as Chino speaking his frustrations over Chi not being able to get out of his bed and just be himself again. "You can't talk, I'm anxious. I'm off the walls." I read the rest as him being scared for his friend and almost wanting to trade places with him. "I'm right here. Just come outside and see in, but pack your heart, you might need it." I think that line is him expressing to Chi that he feels like he hasn't done enough for him, and saying that if Chi were in his shoes, he would have done more; he wishes he had Chi's heart, maybe then something would have happened to improve his condition.
      The chorus is more straight forward. I see it as Chino expressing both his confusion, and the pull he feels to save Chi. I imagine it as him saying that he knows there's nothing he can really do except try to stay positive, and to give him something important to come back to. "I'm confused some, but I think I can try." I think that's him saying he's not sure if moving ahead with the band was in Chi's best interest, but letting Chi know that he's doing it for him too.
      The second verse is definitely more frustration, but it's also him telling Chi that he has seen him beat adversity before, and that he knows he can do it again. "You're locked up, you exit--you did it before, yeah I've seen it." Whenever I hear "relax your arms, and let me in," I think of Chi gripping that bed post of his.
      The bridge makes me think of an interview Chino and Abe had recently. I remember reading about them recalling that they were telling him jokes, but he was just looking at them expressionless, not laughing as he normally would, not even with his eyes. "I know what to say to take you higher, high. No one else can take you higher, but I will try." I imagine it as him saying even though he hasn't succeeded yet, he wants to make him smile again like he used to.
      All of it together reads to me as a powerful and honest message to Chi, which is perhaps why I've really loved this song from the get-go. I don't mean to say that I really believe this is what the song was trying to say, but it's what it says to me. You can take that for what it's worth, and hopefully you'll come to like the song as much as I do.

Much respect,
-Matt

[m3x1can]

Stephen continues to pursue his goal of being the bassist of Deftones.  Perhaps the guitars a little too low this time around.  They sound almost sludgy.  

This is one of the biggest problems I have with deftones. Love the writing style, love the grooves abe lays down, and of course love chinos incredible talent But I feel like there missing those clean hooks. Beauty School is an example of what I wish they would do more of. those catchy clean guitar riffs that are so simple but at the same time bring tears to your eyes, unsurprisingly the main part of the lick that is so catchy is what Chino plays. I think Chino thinks of catchy things where as carpenter is just trying to bring the brutal metal sludgefest. I wish there was more of a balance but I think there is a lot more balance on this one than some of their earlier albums. still havent heard the whole album yet (effin preorder BS) so my opinion is based on what I heard on the live webcast

[TheShade1989]

I dont think it was a case of where they didnt have the time to do all that. It wasnt like they had a deadline to keep to. I think it's just the direction they chose to go in. Things happened quickly because they made it happen quickly...they were all in that creative mentality that allowed it to come together quicker. I also think that they still have their unique "Deftones" sound to it. It's like it's a mixture of their past albums, but they've improved or changed aspects as well. Not to say this is the best album of their, just that it's a growth frm their other albums without completely alienating their sound.

Personally, this is like my second favorite album of theirs. That might change as time goes by, but I doubt it. This and White Pony are the only albums of theirs that I dont have to skip any tracks on, and where I have no definitive favorite. Still, some ppl love it, some like it, and some dont. For a lotta ppl it's a case of it having to grow on you (their other albums besides White Pony had to grow on me for a long time), but ppl have different opinions.

Oh, and just as a question...a lot of ppl seem to dislike This Place Is Death as a closer...what do you think would be a better type of song as a closer?

[Dienekes]

I dont think it was a case of where they didnt have the time to do all that. It wasnt like they had a deadline to keep to. I think it's just the direction they chose to go in. Things happened quickly because they made it happen quickly...they were all in that creative mentality that allowed it to come together quicker. I also think that they still have their unique "Deftones" sound to it. It's like it's a mixture of their past albums, but they've improved or changed aspects as well. Not to say this is the best album of their, just that it's a growth frm their other albums without completely alienating their sound.

Personally, this is like my second favorite album of theirs. That might change as time goes by, but I doubt it. This and White Pony are the only albums of theirs that I dont have to skip any tracks on, and where I have no definitive favorite. Still, some ppl love it, some like it, and some dont. For a lotta ppl it's a case of it having to grow on you (their other albums besides White Pony had to grow on me for a long time), but ppl have different opinions.

Oh, and just as a question...a lot of ppl seem to dislike This Place Is Death as a closer...what do you think would be a better type of song as a closer?

Wow! Sometimes I think you are in my head... I could not have worded it more perfectly...

[iceache]

  They chose swim and had no choice but to write a very quick album, lest two more years go by, further risking their relevance.  Because of this, they didn't have time to include the constitutional rager/techno/cameo tracks. 

They also didn't have time to overthink things and dilute their ideas.  So what we get is a very straightforward, primal album.  There's definitely a cohesion too it.  Maybe too much, to the point where some songs fail to retain the unique identity found in their past albums.  But maybe my appreciation will grow with time. 

Stephen continues to pursue his goal of being the bassist of Deftones.  Perhaps the guitars a little too low this time around.  They sound almost sludgy.  I miss the bright, shrill, slightly clashing tones he achieved in ATF/WP/ST.  His riffing has become much more staccato and rhythmically disjointed.  Perhaps intentionally.

the constitutional song, any of those 3, wouldve taken away from the cohesion. and im not sure how much writing it quickly played into it sounding 'cohesive' as much as outside influence namely the producer... personally i think the songs have a unique quality each to their own.   even if they flow into each other.     i want to see how the vinyl is split.   the album reminds  me more of how albums were made before cds got so popular; an a side and a b side rather than trying to fit as much music and fill up as much time on a cd.....


stephens 8 string does give it a more 'bassy sound' i think he still used a 6 on atf and then a 7 on wp.  the 8 is still a guitar, yet a different instrument in a way also. i think the staccato and disjointed feel is the meshugah influence.

No, White Pony was 6 string. Self Titled is when he first went to 7.

[Inkblades]

How do you not like the chorus to 976? That high note Chino hits is stunning.

And Risk sounds like a b-side? Well, I guess it's in good company with Teething, Can't Even Beathe, Crenshaw, Boy's Republic and Kevin Sorbo.

[Hidalgo]

the boy's republic was on 100,000 copies of WP, it's no b-side. it's a special edition track

[AroundThePonyDK]

I think Risk is one of the greatest song on the album,my personal favorite at the moment...we`re all different and that`s just the way it is.

[Inkblades]

the boy's republic was on 100,000 copies of WP, it's no b-side. it's a special edition track

Special edition track, bonus track or whatever you wanna call it. Point being is it's not on the version that most people have.

[wax]

I dont think it was a case of where they didnt have the time to do all that. It wasnt like they had a deadline to keep to. I think it's just the direction they chose to go in. Things happened quickly because they made it happen quickly...they were all in that creative mentality that allowed it to come together quicker. I also think that they still have their unique "Deftones" sound to it. It's like it's a mixture of their past albums, but they've improved or changed aspects as well. Not to say this is the best album of their, just that it's a growth frm their other albums without completely alienating their sound.

Personally, this is like my second favorite album of theirs. That might change as time goes by, but I doubt it. This and White Pony are the only albums of theirs that I dont have to skip any tracks on, and where I have no definitive favorite. Still, some ppl love it, some like it, and some dont. For a lotta ppl it's a case of it having to grow on you (their other albums besides White Pony had to grow on me for a long time), but ppl have different opinions.

Oh, and just as a question...a lot of ppl seem to dislike This Place Is Death as a closer...what do you think would be a better type of song as a closer?

totally agree with what i bolded and italicized      tpid is a good closer    i dont think any other type of song would have been better   even the song title is good for a last track
i liked this album from start to finsih when i 1st heard it and like it more the more i listen to it    i will say when i first listened to it some songs i wasnt sure i liked them when they started then the changes in the songs worked and the overall song/s sounded good   



       

[defskull]

As someone on another site pointed out, it seems as though for the first time in awhile Chino and Stephen aren't butting heads.  The past few albums it felt forced like on Stephen song, one Chino song, repeat.  It wasn't really a joint effort.  On this album it does feel that way.  The most brutal, heaviest songs on this album have some of the best melodic passages too.  It's a true meshing of the idea of Deftones rather than having them split into separate songs.

I think that's what so many people enjoy about it.  Great songwriting trumps "straighforwardness" any day of the week.

[nineteenpeoplesnames]

I like TPID as a closer as I kind of expected the album to end after 976-EVIL as it has the same effect as the album opener, but then it just blends really well into the start of TPID. So a kind of ender ender haha.

I initially had some problems with this album in some ways (still loved it) but now I just see it as a great piece of work.

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

Royal - The breakdown at 2:25 reminds me of that in Riviere at 2:15. 

that riff on royal 2:25 is very similair to the riff on moana 2:50, check it

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

I think Risk is one of the greatest song on the album,my personal favorite at the moment.

+1. this song just eats me up

[333tone]

Stef has been highly influenced by Meshuggah, but he forgets that Meshuggah have a certain style that could never fit in Deftones.

[theis]

As someone on another site pointed out, it seems as though for the first time in awhile Chino and Stephen aren't butting heads.  The past few albums it felt forced like on Stephen song, one Chino song, repeat.  It wasn't really a joint effort.  On this album it does feel that way.  The most brutal, heaviest songs on this album have some of the best melodic passages too.  It's a true meshing of the idea of Deftones rather than having them split into separate songs.

I think that's what so many people enjoy about it.  Great songwriting trumps "straighforwardness" any day of the week.

Well said. Agree 100%.