Self-titled thoughts

[Bergerac]

Thanks guys.

Wow, some great thoughts above. I could not agree more! So what do you make of SNW then?

Actually the post I lifted that section from is missing the end paragraph (and thus, context). The thread (I'm fairly sure) was actually about SNW, and my post was about how I hated SNW in comparison because it was lacking all of that heavy, brooding heartfelt stuff present on S/T. SNW was an escapist album, and I can understand that given how issues weren't really being resolved. Eventually you do just want to run as far away from it as possible, but given how impressed I'd been by S/T's brutal honesty, SNW was the last thing I wanted from the band. I've gotten over it since then, but I rarely listen to it, and man did SNW piss me off. It's still just a black eye on their discography, to me.

I think that's the whole thing with S/T. As great as ATF and WP were, in terms of sheer heart they almost appear superficial in comparison to S/T. Adrenaline had this glimmer of poetry and passion to it that steadily gave way to increasing hedonism with ATF and WP, but was suddenly brought back like a sledgehammer with Deftones. Even though S/T is completely downbeat and broken, the opposite of Adrenaline really, S/T at least sounded like the same heart beating as was screaming ona song like 7 Words. Whereas ATF was drunk for a while and WP was stoned for a while, Deftones was the sobering back up again, growing some balls and confronting life instead of getting high, or at the very least dealing with the consequences in some parts.

Naturally it was kind of heartbreaking to have that whole wonderful dark time end with such an anticlimax. SNW was kind of like a 'dissipation' of that energy. In some ways I even think that, as bare and stripped down as S/T was musically, it was even more experimental than Pony because of the territory it went to. Hexagram, Minerva, WGTB, Battle Axe, Lucky You and Anniversary were all showing signs of desperation, gratitude, vulnerability, of hunger. People think the band were lazy but I honestly think it's the hungriest they've ever been. It seemed like the most the band wanted to be a band in their career - which I think explains how they actually managed to come out the other side still intact. The issues they were dealing with probably should've torn a band apart given the way things sound, by how the band themselves reflect on that time. Sure as Hell beats the 'emailing music bits' to each other mess that was SNW's production - now that was lazy. Like I said in that quote, about being excited about the band's direction after WP. Well, after S/T, I was like 'Y'know what? Fuck [Pony's] direction, sincerely, I want to see how deep this band are going to claw, after S/T' and unfortunately it didn't quite turn out that way. So in terms of how I feel about SNW, I dunno, I like Beware, Cherry Waves (though I don't like the album version of either in comparison to others I've heard) Rats and Riviere. The rest I just honestly don't care about.

I mean, even Rats, I only like musically. I think the fact that Chino wrote a song about Frances Farmer rather than about the issues that were still ongoing speaks volumes. I'm like 'Hello, your fucking DIVORCES/MARRIAGES dudes? The band in turmoil?'. How were the Deftones hard pressed to write a song about Frances Farmer before their personal issues in the darkest time in the band's history? Granted it's their music, they'll write what they want to, but there are things I can listen to and there are things I can downright respect and S/T had that respect, whereas SNW, I just feel that record had no guts. They were running away, emailing each other, and after how they'd opened my eyes with S/T, SNW was simply disappointing. That's the irony - SNW is actually perfect in terms of how it represented the sound of where the band were at the time. It's overly vague, scatological, directionless and bold faced lying about being upbeat in the middle of a breakdown. In that regard, funnily enough, SNW is perfect, but unfortunately the issues it is being so accurate in describing are all bad shit that no one wants the band to be in.

[Jesus2Chino]

I like the heart analogy--

White Pony = Brain
Deftones = Heart
Adrenaline = Dick
Around the Fur = Balls
Saturday Night Wrist = Breasts. Who's? Not sure (pre-weight-loss Chino perhaps?)

I do like SNW. In all honesty I just couldn't find a good equivalent for it.

Much respect,
-Matt

[Hidalgo]

i don't see how s/t has anymore heart than their other records

[FeetLikeFins]

Saturday Night Wrist = Breasts.

Ha!   

I think I'm in love with your puppy (assuming it is your puppy)..

[shine down unshy]

What you said about the crack in the virgin Mary statue blew me away.  It made me want to listen to s/t. 

I wasn't a huge fan of the s/t album at first, but I definitely came around.  Took a year or two but that album will tear a hole in your soul if you let it.

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

i don't see how s/t has anymore heart than their other records

"Like linus is their most heartfelt record. the one time they really wore their hearts on their sleeves"

you honestly think u can type this and get away with it?

[Vesanic]

you honestly think u can type this and get away with it?

Not on Jesusinabowlofdirt's board.

[Hidalgo]

i don't see how s/t has anymore heart than their other records

"Like linus is their most heartfelt record. the one time they really wore their hearts on their sleeves"

you honestly think u can type this and get away with it?

get away with it? like you're gonna do something about it other than talk shit. i don't remember saying that, but i do think the demos has some of their best stuff. the song like linus alone is better than any s/t track imo. plastic, venison, hump, christmas, answers, some people, gift, also all better than any s/t track imo. only freaks is under par from some of s/t material. i realise this is the s/t crazy board, but that doesn't scare me, it's a freaking message board, a simple musical opinion. you take it too far, what do you care what i think?want me to lie and say s/t is the GOAT so you dont cry anymore?

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

hehe, it did come out a little fucked up i know it wasnt yr exact words..but the discussion wasnt about which rec was the best, its was about s/t had the most heart.when u listen to st it just pours out emotion,like tsunami waves of misery, u really cant say that about like linus. i really would like to see chino o:co faces if an interviewer said to their faces that their demo songs they prob wrote in their teens in a garage somewhere was better than the songs they wrote as professionals,songs to the successor to white pony. suggesting that they hadnt come further, in fact steps back as a band

[Hidalgo]

well, garage days are sometimes a bands best stuff. no pressure, just friends making the best stuff they can. metallica's garage stuff is better than anything they did after the black album, they probably would admit it. countless other bands can only dream of writing stuff as good as their garage stuff

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

yeah u got a point.and thats was a meant in a previous white pony post about not confusing album the sales with how good it is, and that s/t isnt as
good because it didnt sell as much. im not a metallica fan but i doubt their black album is their best stuff although it sold the most

[Hidalgo]

i didn't mean to imply s/t wasn't as good cause it sold less. i never take sales into acount. i just think it wasn't as good cause the music. still, hope people don't get it twisted like i hate the album, cause it's probably one of my 20 fav albums ever. i just place it last among deftones stuff

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

i didn't mean to imply s/t wasn't as good cause it sold less. i never take sales into acount

i guess this is what confused me

i think s/t put the death nail in future album sales for the band, and snw's sales suffered for it. i don't think they'll ever go gold again

[Hidalgo]

yea, all i meant was the disappointment from s/t led to nobody even knowing snw was made. lots of fans jumped ship after s/t

[Vesanic]

You're gonna suffer, Hidalgo. 

[Hidalgo]

i know, i'm gonna get hammered. this place is s/t country. why, i dunno, but it is

anyway, the album is one of my 20-25 favs ever so i certainly aint saying it sucks. it would be better if the album was just bsides or something, sounds like bsides. for deftones standards it's weak, even they know it

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

i do think the demos has some of their best stuff. the song like linus alone is better than any s/t track imo. plastic, venison, hump, christmas, answers, some people, gift, also all better than any s/t track imo.

[se7ennn]

great album. I can't honestly separate ATF, WP and ST since they're all brilliant. I choose my #1 out of those three depending on my mood.


Eros is the closest thing we'll get to S/T part 2 if it ever surfaces. can't see the band heading towards that direction again.

[Lhabia]

in my opinion, every album has its own feel, every album has its ups and downs, but in the end it all balances out.. I personally, used to rank things like that, but all in all I cant really complain about any deftones song Ive ever heard except the Teenager(idiot version) was pitiful.... But yeah, I definitely thing Around The Fur could be their fullest album but besides that, I love em all, and I have a strong feeling that the new albums are gonna blow us all away, cause theres one thing that Deftones are good at- dynamically evolving.

[Hesperian Death-Horse!]

yea, all i meant was the disappointment from s/t led to nobody even knowing snw was made. lots of fans jumped ship after s/t

I think you're right about the fans and their drop in popularity but S/T saw Deftones as a very unique band. The songs all sound huge and unlike almost any other bands songs. Its really hard for me to explain but no other album felt like it before or since and obviously there's only been one since so far so we'll see. The best analogy I can make is that S/T was like the following scene of Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me if that movie were made analogous to their career.

Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me: Weird David Bowie scene