Self-titled thoughts

[Dienekes]

yeah it's the whole show.. thats why i'm wondering there's a bootleg of this somewhere? too bad we don't have vids like this from the benefit shows... .

Sad part being that someone has it, just not us. I wonder where all that proshot footage ended up--such a tragedy. Deep down I'm still hoping they'll release a massive DVD set someday, gotta dream the big dreams.

Much respect,
-Matt

Massive box set release! OMG would that not be sweet? Artwork, special box (see Misfits casket), albums, b-sides, live shit, dvd's, wow! I would pay 100 bones easy for that shit...

[el perro]

i always thought moana should've been replaced by Lovers, and had Lovers as a single.

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

Massive box set release! OMG would that not be sweet? Artwork, special box (see Misfits casket), albums, b-sides, live shit, dvd's, wow! I would pay 100 bones easy for that shit...

that would be great i got the misfits casket and to have a fat deftones box next to it would be wicked cool.

as for grading your favourite deftones records , i just dont know how many times its been done around here... think i pass this round

[pinkmaggit69]

around the fur
saturday night wrist
adreniline
white pony
deftones

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

white pony
around the fur
like linus
saturday night wrist
adrenaline
s/t

like linus better than adrenaline and st? ..omg to write that isnt only a joke itself, it also makes u as a person a big joke. your posts always
SUCK    too bad your 2003 werent that good,but good music doesnt turn bad because of it. see the big picture

[Caín]

i think s/t put the death nail in future album sales for the band, and snw's sales suffered for it. i don't think they'll ever go gold again. a lot of people jumped ship after s/t. it sold ok off the WP buzz and how good the first 3 albums were, but reactions weren't so hot. it was just not what they needed to follow WP. i like the album, but resent it in a way also, and 03 sucked for me so that doesn't help, but even if i had a great year i still would know they could do much better

this! except i do not like that album at all.

White Pony
Around the Fur
Adrenaline
Saturday Night Wrist
s/t

although the last two I could do without. Saturday Night Wrist at least has Cherry waves, Combat and Reviere. s/t has absolutely nothing going for it.

[Jesus2Chino]

Agreed, Riviere is a incredible closing track for SNW, the album just wouldn't have been the same without that song seeing it off.

I've cut your armies down, and torn your heart

You wait
I wait
Outside, awake

She haunts the roads
She waits for a new face

Incredible.

Much respect,
-Matt

[Hidalgo]

riviere might be the best track on snw. breath taking

[Hidalgo]

white pony
around the fur
like linus
saturday night wrist
adrenaline
s/t

like linus better than adrenaline and st? ..omg to write that isnt only a joke itself, it also makes u as a person a big joke. your posts always
SUCK    too bad your 2003 werent that good,but good music doesnt turn bad because of it. see the big picture

i'd definitely tak like linus over s/t. adrenaline? that's alot closer, but i slighty prefer like linus, but just barely. really, the first 5 on the list are so close none had a huge advantage over the other. only s/t is my clear least fav, but i do like it alot still. it's all deftones music so i don't see why the order anyone likes the albums in matters. i am a diehard so there's no hating any of their alums. unless they make one that really sucks or sounds like nickelback, i'll always like what they do

[lostpilot]

...

oh yes. Definitely my favorite Deftones album closer. I always liked Moana, bet Riviere is like SO much better. Especially those last chords.

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

i think s/t put the death nail in future album sales for the band, and snw's sales suffered for it. i don't think they'll ever go gold again. a lot of people jumped ship after s/t. it sold ok off the WP buzz and how good the first 3 albums were, but reactions weren't so hot. it was just not what they needed to follow WP. i like the album, but resent it in a way also, and 03 sucked for me so that doesn't help, but even if i had a great year i still would know they could do much better

but white pony is more of a sell out rec than s/t. Singles like change and digital bath is very radio/video friendly and easy listening+back to school was kind of a big hit when that hip hop metal was big.nu metal times mate. and white pony was released in 3-4 versions so many fans bought more than 1 copy, surley that boosted some sales.
downloading from the net was even more common in 2003 (st times)  than in 2000 (white pony times) so that affects too. dont ever think album sales is the same as best material from any band

[theis]

I love this album. My 3rd favorite Deftones album.

White Pony
Around the Fur
Deftones
Adrenaline
Saturday Night Wrist

[sing blue silver]

recently self titled has been my favorite to listen to. it changes all the time but i think it's a damn solid album. probably my second favorite overall after around the fur.

[Bergerac]

I'll just quote one of my old posts. It perfectly sums up S/T to me.

Well after the progression of White Pony, it was a case of 'Holy shit, where are this band going?'. White Pony was the band hitting the stratosphere. and when I heard Deftones, I didn't dislike it, but I didn't know how to feel about it either. I knew on some level I dug the sound of it, without really articulating in my head that it was 'good', because to be honest I didn't KNOW it was good back then. I was a bit estranged from the album at first; White Pony was a hedonistic exploration, future proof and downright NEW, the band were perched to fly off into exciting new areas, and along comes Deftones, and its this fucking dark, fractured record. I kept listening to it, and the more I did, the more I looked into the lyrics and the sounds, it became apparent that Deftones was a derailing from the logical progression (following WP), and that this band had been hit with a sledgehammer sometime after Pony. On some level I sensed disappointment within me that their White Pony direction had ground to a halt, and that this band had maybe lucked out. Still there was something about the record that kept me listening. It was something I was determined to figure out. Was this record great and was I still rightfully listening for a reason, or was I right in thinking that this band's sudden change was a bad sign? Yet, for those who eventually understood, it wasn't disappointing at all. On some dirty, rotten, palm rubbing level, the band's personal issues were fortunate, because they'd laid those issues out on the record and produced arguably the best shit they'd laid down. I came to understand that it was actually the best direction they could've taken. Why? Well, think of it like this.

White Pony is standing in a pristine room, in front of a beautiful glass statuette of the Virgin Mary, viewing it through stoned eyes, and Deftones is the appearance of a crack across her face that you don't remember happening when you wake up the next morning. Its the acknowledgement of a fucking travesty. Its something you didn't see coming, yet you know for a fact you were witness to it at the time. Shit changes, you don't see the signs, and you're left to pick up the pieces, knowing full well that the broken pieces only got there with the added influence of you and your choices.

As exciting as White Pony was, it was kind of soulless - in some ways that's part of its hedonistic charm, but I had this new album, and it was a fucking soul record. Deftones could be played amongst Motown shit and fit right in. Ha ha. When it transpired what the band had gone through in that period, it all makes sense that Deftones was the fallout. There's nothing cerebral to Deftones, in comparison to WP, which is all very intellectual. Deftones was about heart, but it wasn't a record that was easy to get because that sense of soul came out of left field, given what had just gone before it (WP). So in that regard, it took a while to understand Deftones. When you do understand Deftones, its their best album.

I honestly believe that it was easy for fans back then to listen to Deftones and not get it without coming to understand the reasons for it. I also believe that whoever still doesn't rate Deftones, still doesn't appreciate the gravity of the record. I've said this before, but Deftones is their most painful, most heartfelt record. Its the one that the people who really fucking LOVE what this band have done, appreciate the most, because its the one time they really wore their hearts on their sleeves for the sake of the music. Its fucking wonderful that a band could go from the crazy experimental fronts of WP to such a stripped down approach of Deftones, and write better shit.

There's a reason why that album is called 'Deftones', just no-one really knew why until the dust had settled.

[Dienekes]

Wow, some great thoughts above. I could not agree more! So what do you make of SNW then?

[theis]

Very well written, Bergerac. Made me wanna put the album on.

Kudos!

[Bergerac]

Thanks guys.

Wow, some great thoughts above. I could not agree more! So what do you make of SNW then?

Actually the post I lifted that section from is missing the end paragraph (and thus, context). The thread (I'm fairly sure) was actually about SNW, and my post was about how I hated SNW in comparison because it was lacking all of that heavy, brooding heartfelt stuff present on S/T. SNW was an escapist album, and I can understand that given how issues weren't really being resolved. Eventually you do just want to run as far away from it as possible, but given how impressed I'd been by S/T's brutal honesty, SNW was the last thing I wanted from the band. I've gotten over it since then, but I rarely listen to it, and man did SNW piss me off. It's still just a black eye on their discography, to me.

I think that's the whole thing with S/T. As great as ATF and WP were, in terms of sheer heart they almost appear superficial in comparison to S/T. Adrenaline had this glimmer of poetry and passion to it that steadily gave way to increasing hedonism with ATF and WP, but was suddenly brought back like a sledgehammer with Deftones. Even though S/T is completely downbeat and broken, the opposite of Adrenaline really, S/T at least sounded like the same heart beating as was screaming ona song like 7 Words. Whereas ATF was drunk for a while and WP was stoned for a while, Deftones was the sobering back up again, growing some balls and confronting life instead of getting high, or at the very least dealing with the consequences in some parts.

Naturally it was kind of heartbreaking to have that whole wonderful dark time end with such an anticlimax. SNW was kind of like a 'dissipation' of that energy. In some ways I even think that, as bare and stripped down as S/T was musically, it was even more experimental than Pony because of the territory it went to. Hexagram, Minerva, WGTB, Battle Axe, Lucky You and Anniversary were all showing signs of desperation, gratitude, vulnerability, of hunger. People think the band were lazy but I honestly think it's the hungriest they've ever been. It seemed like the most the band wanted to be a band in their career - which I think explains how they actually managed to come out the other side still intact. The issues they were dealing with probably should've torn a band apart given the way things sound, by how the band themselves reflect on that time. Sure as Hell beats the 'emailing music bits' to each other mess that was SNW's production - now that was lazy. Like I said in that quote, about being excited about the band's direction after WP. Well, after S/T, I was like 'Y'know what? Fuck [Pony's] direction, sincerely, I want to see how deep this band are going to claw, after S/T' and unfortunately it didn't quite turn out that way. So in terms of how I feel about SNW, I dunno, I like Beware, Cherry Waves (though I don't like the album version of either in comparison to others I've heard) Rats and Riviere. The rest I just honestly don't care about.

I mean, even Rats, I only like musically. I think the fact that Chino wrote a song about Frances Farmer rather than about the issues that were still ongoing speaks volumes. I'm like 'Hello, your fucking DIVORCES/MARRIAGES dudes? The band in turmoil?'. How were the Deftones hard pressed to write a song about Frances Farmer before their personal issues in the darkest time in the band's history? Granted it's their music, they'll write what they want to, but there are things I can listen to and there are things I can downright respect and S/T had that respect, whereas SNW, I just feel that record had no guts. They were running away, emailing each other, and after how they'd opened my eyes with S/T, SNW was simply disappointing. That's the irony - SNW is actually perfect in terms of how it represented the sound of where the band were at the time. It's overly vague, scatological, directionless and bold faced lying about being upbeat in the middle of a breakdown. In that regard, funnily enough, SNW is perfect, but unfortunately the issues it is being so accurate in describing are all bad shit that no one wants the band to be in.

[Jesus2Chino]

I like the heart analogy--

White Pony = Brain
Deftones = Heart
Adrenaline = Dick
Around the Fur = Balls
Saturday Night Wrist = Breasts. Who's? Not sure (pre-weight-loss Chino perhaps?)

I do like SNW. In all honesty I just couldn't find a good equivalent for it.

Much respect,
-Matt

[Hidalgo]

i don't see how s/t has anymore heart than their other records

[FeetLikeFins]

Saturday Night Wrist = Breasts.

Ha!   

I think I'm in love with your puppy (assuming it is your puppy)..