System Of A Down now back.

[alvarezbassist17]

Who cares...

[defskull]

who cares

[Deftones-argentina]

Can I just say two things about this thread:

first: Many people care, SOAD has a bigger fanbase than Deftones, just saying. (ex: Chop Suey has over 60 million views on youtube, I don't think any Deftones song has even 6 million).

second: System of A Down was never a nu metal band
Here's a quote from guitarist Daron Malakian: "We don't belong to any one scene" and that "I don't like the nu-metal drop-A 7-string guitar sound; it is not my thing..."

Anyway they are supposedly on tour right now, and I hope if they make a new album it's in the same spirit of their old ones. I liked most of Serj's solo stuff but Scars on Broadway wasn't as good, I thought.

while I agree with part of your point, I think choosing chop suey as an example is kind of cheating. Even my partners at school (when It came out) liked that song...and the same people liked christina aguilera, or linkin park, or random stuff. Where I'm trying to get to is that a lot of those views are from cassual listeners, a not necessarily fans.

[alvarezbassist17]

"I don't like the nu-metal drop-A 7-string guitar sound; it is not my thing..."

That is so retarded.  He has always drop-tuned his guitar to C.  #1: that's only 3 steps away from drop-A and #2: HE DROP-TUNES, TOO!!  I've heard a zillion other snobs say "oh, drop C, that's soooo nu metal."

And they're more nu metal than they are anything else.  There really isn't anything very progressive about them, and there's other nu metal bands that had some outside and/or ethnic influences.

For future reference, it's way easier to just say "to each their own."  This is all just peoples' opinions, you can't just present (admittedly dubious) facts and convince someone to like something.

That aside, SOAD started sucking donkey dick when Daron started doing more than background vocals.

[TheSeeker1080]

Can I just say two things about this thread:

first: Many people care, SOAD has a bigger fanbase than Deftones, just saying. (ex: Chop Suey has over 60 million views on youtube, I don't think any Deftones song has even 6 million).

second: System of A Down was never a nu metal band
Here's a quote from guitarist Daron Malakian: "We don't belong to any one scene" and that "I don't like the nu-metal drop-A 7-string guitar sound; it is not my thing..."

Anyway they are supposedly on tour right now, and I hope if they make a new album it's in the same spirit of their old ones. I liked most of Serj's solo stuff but Scars on Broadway wasn't as good, I thought.

while I agree with part of your point, I think choosing chop suey as an example is kind of cheating. Even my partners at school (when It came out) liked that song...and the same people liked christina aguilera, or linkin park, or random stuff. Where I'm trying to get to is that a lot of those views are from cassual listeners, a not necessarily fans.

I know that was just one example, but you could pick almost any SOAD song and any Deftones song, most of the time if not every time the SOAD video will have more views. Not that Youtube is even a good litmus test. The only reason I brought it up was because like 7 people said who cares over and over again, and it's like dude millions of people care and more people care about SOAD than Deftones. I personally like both.

[TheSeeker1080]

"I don't like the nu-metal drop-A 7-string guitar sound; it is not my thing..."

That is so retarded.  He has always drop-tuned his guitar to C.  #1: that's only 3 steps away from drop-A and #2: HE DROP-TUNES, TOO!!  I've heard a zillion other snobs say "oh, drop C, that's soooo nu metal."

And they're more nu metal than they are anything else.  There really isn't anything very progressive about them, and there's other nu metal bands that had some outside and/or ethnic influences.

For future reference, it's way easier to just say "to each their own."  This is all just peoples' opinions, you can't just present (admittedly dubious) facts and convince someone to like something.

That aside, SOAD started sucking donkey dick when Daron started doing more than background vocals.

#1 I don't know if he always drop tuned to C, even if he did only 3 steps away? That makes a difference. Even a half step dropped will sound different, so 3 steps is a pretty big difference. Additionally he always plays a 6 string, not 7 or 8 string. #2 They really aren't nu metal, I'm not sure why you insist they are. The only song of theirs that is even close to nu metal is that Wu tang cover of "Shame on a nigga" but that was just a cover of a rap song done by a metal band so of course it will sound like nu metal. To me (and most people) they aren't nu metal, they are alt metal or hard rock or prog metal/rock.
    You are right though "to each their own," although I gotta again disagree with you saying they sucked when Daron started doing more than background vocals. He's always been the lead guitarist, not only that but he is placed 30th in Guitar World's List of The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time.

[black coffee]

We needed new blood and another noob to bash, so we are glad that you joined this place.

Seriously I like your attitude, not allowing anyone to fuck with you. Still, this place is full of different opinions, and when you say SOAD is not nu metal, then people might disagree with you and you gotta get over it.

And like alvazrez said, by presenting lame facts you won't convince anyone about anything.... like it matters if he's 30th in Guitar World's List of The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time or not, SOAD can still release shit albums. Which they did IMHO as well.

[alvarezbassist17]

#1 I don't know if he always drop tuned to C, even if he did only 3 steps away? That makes a difference. Even a half step dropped will sound different, so 3 steps is a pretty big difference.

Alright dumbshit, let's see.  Oh, C is 4 steps away from E, so using your retard logic, that's even further away and makes even more of a difference.

And yes, I believe he tunes to drop C# on some of their new shit, but every song up to steal this album was drop C.

Additionally he always plays a 6 string, not 7 or 8 string.

No one used 8 strings in the nu metal era.  The majority used 6, in various tunings.  But that's all beside my point.  It's the height of hypocrisy for him to denounce drop tuning as "some other genre's doing" while he does it.

#2 They really aren't nu metal, I'm not sure why you insist they are. The only song of theirs that is even close to nu metal is that Wu tang cover of "Shame on a nigga" but that was just a cover of a rap song done by a metal band so of course it will sound like nu metal. To me (and most people) they aren't nu metal, they are alt metal or hard rock or prog metal/rock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nu_metal_bands

I gotta again disagree with you saying they sucked when Daron started doing more than background vocals. He's always been the lead guitarist, not only that but he is placed 30th in Guitar World's List of The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time.

And guess who placed above him: Head & Munky from Korn, Adam Jones from Tool, and Vivian Campbell from Def Leppard.  And don't even get me started on the omissions.  Do you think maybe they might have valued exposure and/or entire-band-talent a little bit over the guitarist's actual musical ability for that specific list?

[Deftones-argentina]

i know this is kind off-topic; But new metal is commonly used as a bad word, just because it's cool to diss genres and make yourself look nomad & stuff (like chino does). My take on the fact is the next:

The cure are pop (sometimes). Backstreet boys are "pop". (I know this is exaggeration, too)

The same could be said on new metal, there's bands who does good music and bands who doesn't. And bands who expand the genre's limits & bands who don't. The fact that you can also aproach some other genres and do some exploration doesn't change the root your music comes from. Except you're Thrice.
Deftones is metal with a new fresh air take on it. it was a propper tag at the time I guess, just press overhyped and fags bought it. It should have been named Alternative metal, though.

[defskull]

And like alvazrez said, by presenting lame facts you won't convince anyone about anything.... like it matters if he's 30th in Guitar World's List of The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time or not

Exactly. You used a list which is based off the opinions of others to back up your evidence that he is a good guitarist. I mean I could probably pull out of my ass some critic that thought White Pony was album of the year, therefore, Deftones is better. But that doesn't make sense and is just stupid.

[TheSeeker1080]

#1 I don't know if he always drop tuned to C, even if he did only 3 steps away? That makes a difference. Even a half step dropped will sound different, so 3 steps is a pretty big difference.

Alright dumbshit, let's see.  Oh, C is 4 steps away from E, so using your retard logic, that's even further away and makes even more of a difference.

And yes, I believe he tunes to drop C# on some of their new shit, but every song up to steal this album was drop C.

Additionally he always plays a 6 string, not 7 or 8 string.

No one used 8 strings in the nu metal era.  The majority used 6, in various tunings.  But that's all beside my point.  It's the height of hypocrisy for him to denounce drop tuning as "some other genre's doing" while he does it.

#2 They really aren't nu metal, I'm not sure why you insist they are. The only song of theirs that is even close to nu metal is that Wu tang cover of "Shame on a nigga" but that was just a cover of a rap song done by a metal band so of course it will sound like nu metal. To me (and most people) they aren't nu metal, they are alt metal or hard rock or prog metal/rock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nu_metal_bands

I gotta again disagree with you saying they sucked when Daron started doing more than background vocals. He's always been the lead guitarist, not only that but he is placed 30th in Guitar World's List of The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time.

And guess who placed above him: Head & Munky from Korn, Adam Jones from Tool, and Vivian Campbell from Def Leppard.  And don't even get me started on the omissions.  Do you think maybe they might have valued exposure and/or entire-band-talent a little bit over the guitarist's actual musical ability for that specific list?

"That is so retarded.  He has always drop-tuned his guitar to C.  #1: that's only 3 steps away from drop-A" <- your words.
My point was 3 steps away is a lot so it's not something you can say "only" to as if it is very close. Neither of us were talking about how many steps from E until you just mentioned it, in an attempt to insult me. Try to stay on topic, we are discussing SOAD and apparently guitar tunings, it has nothing to do with me or you so please save your name calling for when school starts again. What's beside the point is arguing over whether or not SOAD is nu-metal, I say they aren't. You can debate on it with someone else if you want.

BTW quoting wikipedia for proof that they are nu metal is just stupid, I could go edit that list right now and put Metallica (actually Metallica used Drop C in some albums/songs so to you I guess that would be accurate) on it but that doesn't make them nu metal. I mean did you even read that list? Evanescence is on it, does anyone honestly believe Evanescence is nu metal? You know a lot of bands have used Drop tunings that aren't nu metal. Nirvana, Mastodon, Staind, Helmet and a bunch of metalcore/deathcore bands use/used Drop C, none of them were ever nu metal.

As for The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time, who cares who placed above Daron Malakian? Dude they have Jimi Hendrix as #12 so to me it's a fucked up list in general, my point was that he's on it so you can't say he is shit. Stephen Carpenter is ranked 60, btw. Additionally Head & Munky from Korn are also ranked higher than John Petrucci, and Adam Jones is ranked higher than Jimi Hendrix. I mean if you agree with either of those rankings then there is no point in discussing anything related to music with you at all.

[TheSeeker1080]

And like alvazrez said, by presenting lame facts you won't convince anyone about anything.... like it matters if he's 30th in Guitar World's List of The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time or not

Exactly. You used a list which is based off the opinions of others to back up your evidence that he is a good guitarist. I mean I could probably pull out of my ass some critic that thought White Pony was album of the year, therefore, Deftones is better. But that doesn't make sense and is just stupid.

It's a list from Guitar World. What else do you want me to use as evidence to back up my claim that he is a good guitarist? I'm not trying to prove he is a better guitarist than anyone in particular also not trying to prove SOAD is better than Deftones. Music is subjective, who is a better guitarist is also subjective. I think Daron Malakian is a good guitarist and Guitar World agrees with me. When you are trying to say one thing or another is better and that thing is subjective, such as music, the best thing to prove you are right is how many people share that opinion or agree with you. And I'm sure you could find someone who said White Pony was the album of the year, the song Elite won a grammy after all.

[alvarezbassist17]

#1 I don't know if he always drop tuned to C, even if he did only 3 steps away? That makes a difference. Even a half step dropped will sound different, so 3 steps is a pretty big difference.

Alright dumbshit, let's see.  Oh, C is 4 steps away from E, so using your retard logic, that's even further away and makes even more of a difference.

And yes, I believe he tunes to drop C# on some of their new shit, but every song up to steal this album was drop C.

Additionally he always plays a 6 string, not 7 or 8 string.

No one used 8 strings in the nu metal era.  The majority used 6, in various tunings.  But that's all beside my point.  It's the height of hypocrisy for him to denounce drop tuning as "some other genre's doing" while he does it.

#2 They really aren't nu metal, I'm not sure why you insist they are. The only song of theirs that is even close to nu metal is that Wu tang cover of "Shame on a nigga" but that was just a cover of a rap song done by a metal band so of course it will sound like nu metal. To me (and most people) they aren't nu metal, they are alt metal or hard rock or prog metal/rock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nu_metal_bands

I gotta again disagree with you saying they sucked when Daron started doing more than background vocals. He's always been the lead guitarist, not only that but he is placed 30th in Guitar World's List of The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time.

And guess who placed above him: Head & Munky from Korn, Adam Jones from Tool, and Vivian Campbell from Def Leppard.  And don't even get me started on the omissions.  Do you think maybe they might have valued exposure and/or entire-band-talent a little bit over the guitarist's actual musical ability for that specific list?

"That is so retarded.  He has always drop-tuned his guitar to C.  #1: that's only 3 steps away from drop-A" <- your words.
My point was 3 steps away is a lot so it's not something you can say "only" to as if it is very close. Neither of us were talking about how many steps from E until you just mentioned it, in an attempt to insult me. Try to stay on topic, we are discussing SOAD and apparently guitar tunings, it has nothing to do with me or you so please save your name calling for when school starts again. What's beside the point is arguing over whether or not SOAD is nu-metal, I say they aren't. You can debate on it with someone else if you want.

BTW quoting wikipedia for proof that they are nu metal is just stupid, I could go edit that list right now and put Metallica (actually Metallica used Drop C in some albums/songs so to you I guess that would be accurate) on it but that doesn't make them nu metal. I mean did you even read that list? Evanescence is on it, does anyone honestly believe Evanescence is nu metal? You know a lot of bands have used Drop tunings that aren't nu metal. Nirvana, Mastodon, Staind, Helmet and a bunch of metalcore/deathcore bands use/used Drop C, none of them were ever nu metal.

As for The 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists of All Time, who cares who placed above Daron Malakian? Dude they have Jimi Hendrix as #12 so to me it's a fucked up list in general, my point was that he's on it so you can't say he is shit. Stephen Carpenter is ranked 60, btw. Additionally Head & Munky from Korn are also ranked higher than John Petrucci, and Adam Jones is ranked higher than Jimi Hendrix. I mean if you agree with either of those rankings then there is no point in discussing anything related to music with you at all.

Does anyone else (who isn't too bored by this to have stopped caring) see this?  This has to be the textbook definition of short-term memory deficiency.

#1: You (or Daron) brought up the guitar tuning. I'm saying it's hypocritical to denounce drop tuning in general as typical of some other genre when you do it, and that it's retarded to try to distance yourself by saying you just drop tune less than those nu metal guys, when you still do.  Also, way to leave out the part i had in caps: "HE DROP TUNES TOO!!"

#2: Why don't you go edit that wiki and see if someone overrides you.  P.S. there's 3 citations on their name.

#3: Why the fuck would you post the list and then, when i attack its credibility, YOU DO THE SAME THING??  You were saying "ohhh looook he's at number thiiiirtyyy," and then COMPLETELY FLIP FLOPPED and said the rankings were all bogus.  Why does it matter if he's on the list if when "you agree with either of those rankings then there is no point in discussing anything related to music with you at all?"  Also, i declared it bogus from frame one, why would I agree with any of the rankings? 

#4: Where do you get your weed? I was previously just trying to find the shit that makes you melt into the couch and the kind that makes your dog talk, but I'd rather have the kind that erases any semblance of logic from a brain, like apparently you found.

[TheSeeker1080]

Does anyone else (who isn't too bored by this to have stopped caring) see this?  This has to be the textbook definition of short-term memory deficiency.

#1: You (or Daron) brought up the guitar tuning. I'm saying it's hypocritical to denounce drop tuning in general as typical of some other genre when you do it, and that it's retarded to try to distance yourself by saying you just drop tune less than those nu metal guys, when you still do.  Also, way to leave out the part i had in caps: "HE DROP TUNES TOO!!"

#2: Why don't you go edit that wiki and see if someone overrides you.  P.S. there's 3 citations on their name.

#3: Why the fuck would you post the list and then, when i attack its credibility, YOU DO THE SAME THING??  You were saying "ohhh looook he's at number thiiiirtyyy," and then COMPLETELY FLIP FLOPPED and said the rankings were all bogus.  Why does it matter if he's on the list if when "you agree with either of those rankings then there is no point in discussing anything related to music with you at all?"  Also, i declared it bogus from frame one, why would I agree with any of the rankings? 

#4: Where do you get your weed? I was previously just trying to find the shit that makes you melt into the couch and the kind that makes your dog talk, but I'd rather have the kind that erases any semblance of logic from a brain, like apparently you found.

Yes, I have a terrible short term memory. (it's so bad I don't even know what it is you think I forgot, my stance has been the same, and I've made my points, they haven't changed, I think you are just misinterpreting a few things I've said probably regarding the list, I will try to clarify below)

#1. He didn't denounce it, he said "it's not my thing." How is it hypocritical to say I don't like drop A 7 string, I use drop C 6 string; they aren't the same, they don't sound the same. I wasn't trying to leave out any part, I never said he didn't use drop tuning, you seem to have a bad memory as well, I said "I don't know if he ALWAYS uses drop C." (I admittedly said I don't know, and you don't have to reiterate that he used drop C and uses drop C# on new stuff) I posted many other brands that use drop C and aren't nu metal. My goal in doing so was trying to get you to see that simply having dropped tuning doesn't make it nu metal. Additionally, you are forgetting part of his quote, "drop A 7 string guitar sound." Maybe you think 6 string and 7 string sounds the same. I don't, and 7 string guitars have always been a staple of nu metal sound. In fact I've listened to someone play songs from Diamond Eyes using a 7 string and it doesn't sound the same because Stephen uses an 8 string on it. If you were using a 6 string guitar as a 7 string you would probably tune to BEADGB. Drop C would be CADGBE or sometimes CGCFAD.
#2. No thanks, I'm not in the business of spreading misinformation.
#3. Relax man, I only posted the list originally to defend against saying he is a shit guitarist. I don't like the rankings, I see it more as a list of 100 great heavy metal guitar players in no particular order more than I see it as a 1 is the best type of list. I didn't "flip flop." Looking back, I wish I'd said "he is in the top 100 of guitar world's greatest heavy metal guitarists of all time" and not given the ranking because you seem to be dwelling on that.
#4. lol, if you can't even follow this discussion properly that is all listed here for you to go back and reference, then I think some mids will do the trick for you.

I didn't bring up the guitar tuning to discuss dropped tunings, I quoted Daron Malakian to try to prove my point that SOAD isn't nu-metal, and in that quote he mentioned not liking drop A so it branched off from there. Still, having dropped tuning doesn't make a band nu metal. I like how you chose to ignore how I listed bands that use dropped tunings and clearly aren't nu metal.

[tarkil]

internets ... bla bla bla ... arguing ... bla bla bla ... retarded

[indychinoluv]

Hahaha. Funny shit. SOAD are as nu-metal as Deftones. It's just a label and sub-genre of metal. Who gives a fuck? There are good and bad bands in any genre.
Why is nu-metal such a dirty word anyways? Cause it's a label?
I personally don't like SOAD, but welcome any band that is gonna challange music (can't deny that they did do that), but I still see them as kiddy metal (similar to shitknott, but I am growing on them after All Hope is gone)

Who outside of Korn use 7-strings all the time? I've never associated nu-metal with 7-strings.

[defskull]

Trying to prove a band isn't nu-metal sounds like you're insecure about the bands you like. It's like they have to be labeled a certain thing or else you can't been seen listening to it. Who cares?

[TheSeeker1080]

I actually like nu metal, and I like System of a Down, but I still don't think SOAD is nu metal.

[nineteen]

It was 90s metal.

Nu-Metal was a media created term/genre.

[TheSeeker1080]

It was 90s metal.

Nu-Metal was a media created term/genre.

You're right, and for the life of me I can't even remember hearing the term "nu metal" during the 90s. I've only heard it more recently.