Politics, Society etc.

[Variable]

I was embedded with the Afghan Army for 9 months between 07 and 08.  Just 1 other U.S. Marine and myself.  So, I had quite a few scenarios like that unfold.  I was introduced to all the good and bad of Afghan culture very quickly.  Don't get me wrong, it was all very friendly.  We all became very good friends and I trusted them with my life even more so than when we would do combined opps with the U.S. Army.  It all seemed very innocent when it was my Afghan friends talking shit to me, and then allowing me to prove them ignorant.  Just later down the road when I really started thinking about the implications of that kind of logic and the way that they would treat other people who they did not know....... Thats when I really started understanding that it wasn't so innocent anymore.

Once we all got back together in Kabul at the end of the deployment; Some of the Marines had a pretty hard time with it.  Sometimes their stereotypical "American Pride" was hurt.  A very, very  good friend of mine ( who was a genetic freak and very very good at killing and MMA ) also ended up getting in a pretty serious argument with one of my best Afghan friends about the subject.  My friend was seriously really talented at MMA and had the strength to back it up.  This Afghan used his "we are better at everything" logic.  My friend was a very awesome, very intelligent man, however I think it was just his man pride that got hurt at this point and they got into it pretty bad.  Oh well.  It all worked out in the end.  Kind of anyways. 

Great story about Saddam though.  Thats a tid bit of history I knew nothing of. 

[E-Money]

Does anyone feel like the Middle East hasn't really progressed since biblical times?  I honestly don't think democracy is even possible in most of these countries...  Especially until women are treated as equals.  Does anyone else feel the same way? 

[bright lights, big city]

i dunno, iraq has a few hours of electricity a day. that's some progression.

[E-Money]

i dunno, iraq has a few hours of electricity a day. that's some progression.

true, I guess were setting low standards haha.  but thats improvement

I'm just sick of the middle east I guess.  I was talking to my dad the other day about it and he said that 25 years ago you didn't even hear about muslims or the middle east.  Seems like thats all we hear about today. 

[Variable]

Does anyone feel like the Middle East hasn't really progressed since biblical times?  I honestly don't think democracy is even possible in most of these countries...  Especially until women are treated as equals.  Does anyone else feel the same way? 

Because Women had equal rights when the U.S.A. was created?  Black people were not even considered human beings when the U.S. was created........

Yes, the middle east has progressed since biblical times.  They have cars, guns, cell phones, computers, tanks, air conditioning, heating, internet, currency, banks, universities........

I get your point.  That from a philosophical view point they are way behind.  Which is true.  But only like the U.S. in the 1800s ( that would be almost two centuries since the last book of the bible was written.  Over 6,000 years from Genesis). 

They just don't respect women, are racist, and have delusions of grandeur.  That still sounds like A LOT of back woods people in the U.S. today. 

But look.  If you go to Kabul you will see commerce, some women without Burkas, a University, TONS of traffic with cars, Afghanistan as a whole has GREAT cell service, Streets, buildings, police, and factories.  I could show you some pics of certain parts of Kabul that you would think were taken in the suburbs of Europe............But more importantly it's a "progressive" city for Afghanistan.  Minorities and Majorities get along, women have a little bit of rights, people are generally against fundamental Islam.  You just have to wait for that movement to hit the rural areas.  Just how it had to spread from the big U.S. cities ( like Boston or New York ) and spread to the rural areas of the U.S.  It took us a while, let them have their time now.

And STOP watching Glen Beck.  I'm assuming you guys watch his program and thats why you are all so foolishly saying that you don't think democracy is possible in the region. 

[Variable]

Oh, and ask your dad about what they DID talk about 25 years ago.  I bet it has something to do with the word communism.  I bet a lot of people thought certain parts of the communist world was hopeless too.  It all turned out just fine though. 

[blixa]

lollercoaster.

now to the serious:

i dunno, iraq has a few hours of electricity a day. that's some progression.

true, I guess were setting low standards haha.  but thats improvement

I'm just sick of the middle east I guess.  I was talking to my dad the other day about it and he said that 25 years ago you didn't even hear about muslims or the middle east.  Seems like thats all we hear about today. 

my only living grandmother lives in the middle east so some of us are not sick of hearing about the middle east and you may joke about the electricity but try getting through the winter and there's no power to live through the cold. try being my 75 year old nanna. you can say what you want about it, and i guess most of what you guys are saying is justified, but i assure you, that place is hella important because that is the beginning of civilisation right there so i feel if you can't respect the people there, at least respect the land and the rich history of that region, which is being bombed left, right and centre.

democracy will happen one day. a secular society will need to be put in place. it's a long time away because people still feel they need to involve religion into everything but it will eventually change. its taken us so long to get equal rights for women here in the west, and we didn't have to live under the taliban or sharia law. so if it's taking the women in the middle east a bit longer then i can understand that and i want to be informed through a legitimate source about how things are going on that front. and when i say legitimate source, i don't mean beck or fox news. i guess those people are america's version of wacked out nutjobs, kind of like the nutjobs in the middle east - so you see, we haven't progressed as far as we hoped.

[Variable]

The most I can tell you is what I said in the post above.  When I drove around the Streets of Kabul, Women were walking around without Burkas. 

I know Hillary Clinton has been campaigning pretty hard for womens rights in the middle east.  Mainly Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan because they are "democracies" that we obviously control. 

The military might try to enforce that girls can go to school and abusing women is no longer lawful.  But, we don't sleep amongst the people at night, we sleep in our bases.  So when we leave, the Taliban can do as they please.  So most people don't dare to send their girls to school in fear that they will be murdered at night. 

Pretty much, they are VERY far away. 

[bright lights, big city]

i dunno, iraq has a few hours of electricity a day. that's some progression.

true, I guess were setting low standards haha.  but thats improvement

I'm just sick of the middle east I guess.  I was talking to my dad the other day about it and he said that 25 years ago you didn't even hear about muslims or the middle east.  Seems like thats all we hear about today. 

my only living grandmother lives in the middle east so some of us are not sick of hearing about the middle east and you may joke about the electricity but try getting through the winter and there's no power to live through the cold. try being my 75 year old nanna. you can say what you want about it, and i guess most of what you guys are saying is justified, but i assure you, that place is hella important because that is the beginning of civilisation right there so i feel if you can't respect the people there, at least respect the land and the rich history of that region, which is being bombed left, right and centre.

democracy will happen one day. a secular society will need to be put in place. it's a long time away because people still feel they need to involve religion into everything but it will eventually change. its taken us so long to get equal rights for women here in the west, and we didn't have to live under the taliban or sharia law. so if it's taking the women in the middle east a bit longer then i can understand that and i want to be informed through a legitimate source about how things are going on that front. and when i say legitimate source, i don't mean beck or fox news. i guess those people are america's version of wacked out nutjobs, kind of like the nutjobs in the middle east - so you see, we haven't progressed as far as we hoped.

haha I've been wondering how many ways there were to spell his name, so no one's really wrong when trying to spell it.

my comment was made mostly towards Iraq. Every few weeks I hear a tv news story about Baghdad or some civil unrest somewhere in Iraq, and a lot of times they mention living conditions that people over there cope with. supposedly, a good portion of the population doesn't get much of any electricity, which I always find interesting because how the hell would i ever keep food without a refrigerator constantly going. The point is, we've been over there for years, trying to set them up for democracy and better lives. yet, here they are still apparently needing lots of candles.

[Variable]

I have never personally been to Iraq.  But from everything I hear they are doing a lot better off than that.  Not from a philosophical stand point.  But infrastructure.  I think it's a pretty good possibility that they have pretty regular electricity and SOME modern conveniences.

Now civil unrest?  Sure, Team America is on the scene ruling their nation for them, and they know this.  Iraq has made astounding progress that no body could have seen coming.  It just so happened that the war lords finally got sick of the violence and decided they would support the proposed government.  The people of Iraq did this, not Washington D.C.  Don't get me wrong, U.S. forces had to endure the slug fest with them and keep fighting until this happened.  But the real progress was made by the Iraqis them selves.  So, now that they are there, and they made these steps.  They are ready for Team America to get the fuck out and let them do their thing. 

It seems to me that A LOT of the worlds problems could be solved if America would just go home and stay there. 

[downtownpony]

God I hope Ron Paul runs for president so we have a chance of that happening in the near future. If he wins of course.

[Variable]

That would be amazing.  I don't think he is going to run this time though.  Maybe Rand in another 4-8 years. 

[downtownpony]

I don't know man. From his most recent interviews when they ask him about running he never rules it out. He usually says he'll have to think about it.
I signed the petition on his website anyways.

[Variable]

Yeah thats what they all say.  It would be great but I just don't know.  Unfortunately I don't think he even stands a chance even if he does run though.  People are too close minded and his age will come up as an issue.   

[bright lights, big city]

too bad the tea party's backed by palin. he ain't winning.

[Variable]

This whole "tea party" thing is way out of control.  Everyone who isn't a main stream Republican gets automatically grouped in with them.  Ron Paul still belongs to the republican party.  He also has more than enough clout to jump into any  kind of political race without needing backing from "the tea party". 

I get that someone actually made a political party called "The Tea Party".  But the roots of this "Tea Party Movement" are not all one political ideology or one united group under the same banner.  There were people from all kinds of walks and political opinions coming together to show their frustration with the Federal Government; particularly on the issue of taxes.  I just think it's a shame that everyone who is a Libertarian or Independent now automatically gets grouped in with the new official Tea Party.  OF course, that's the media trying to associate some really great political thinkers like Ron Paul with some pretty radical right wing beliefs in an attempt to discredit them.  And of course it's working.  Americans believe everything they hear on the news and never think to research anything for themselves.  Oh and while were talking about important news, did you hear what Charlie Sheen said now?!?!?!?!?

[Jerry_Curls]

This whole "tea party" thing is way out of control.  Everyone who isn't a main stream Republican gets automatically grouped in with them.  Ron Paul still belongs to the republican party.  He also has more than enough clout to jump into any  kind of political race without needing backing from "the tea party". 

I get that someone actually made a political party called "The Tea Party".  But the roots of this "Tea Party Movement" are not all one political ideology or one united group under the same banner.  There were people from all kinds of walks and political opinions coming together to show their frustration with the Federal Government; particularly on the issue of taxes.  I just think it's a shame that everyone who is a Libertarian or Independent now automatically gets grouped in with the new official Tea Party.  OF course, that's the media trying to associate some really great political thinkers like Ron Paul with some pretty radical right wing beliefs in an attempt to discredit them.  And of course it's working.  Americans believe everything they hear on the news and never think to research anything for themselves.  Oh and while were talking about important news, did you hear what Charlie Sheen said now?!?!?!?!?

^Winning!

I hate how Glenn Beck and Palin are the face of "the tea party"...actually, they represent the exact opposite that the oringal tea party stood for. The movement has been hijacked to discredit and make a mockery of anyone who actually associates with the Ron Paul ideals of the tea party.

[Variable]

Thats the media for you though right?  Everyone acts like they know this, yet nothing ever changes.

I love shows like "the Colbert Report" and "the Daily Show" but I hate how they always associate Glen Beck with "the Tea Party" then they always manage to associate anybody with unpopular "right wing" political beliefs with really brilliant right wing thinkers and put them all under the banner of "the Tea Party".  I really got upset when I saw them put Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Judge Napolitano all in the same boat as "the Tea Party" including Sarah Palin.........sooooo fucking irritating.

[Jerry_Curls]

Ron Paul running for president in 2012....got my vote!

[bright lights, big city]

anyone else hoping Donald Trump finds his way to one of his hotel roofs and jumps?