Politics, Society etc.

[tarkil]

Yes, baaaaaaaaaad Jerry_Curls, baaaaaaaaaad..............             

[Jerry_Curls]

Fines proposed for not having health insurance

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_overhaul

Fines proposed for going without health insurance

By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Writer – 4 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Americans who fail to sign up for a medical plan after health care overhaul takes effect could be hit with fines of up to $3,800, according to a new proposal circulated Tuesday by a senior Democrat. Meanwhile, on the eve of a major health care speech by President Barack Obama, a government health insurance option overwhelmingly favored by progressive Democrats appeared to be losing critically needed support.

Lawmakers returned to Capitol Hill with little sign that many of the difficult issues surrounding a health care overhaul can be easily resolved.

The proposed fines are part of a proposal from Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., a moderate who heads the influential Finance Committee. Baucus was meeting Tuesday with a small group of senators trying to engineer a bipartisan compromise to break the stalemate. His plan would guarantee coverage for nearly all Americans at a cost to taxpayers of under $900 billion over 10 years. Some experts consider that a bargain, since the country now spends around $2.5 trillion a year on health care.

The fines would be the stick to enforce a proposed requirement that all Americans get health insurance, much as auto coverage is now mandatory. The penalties would start at $750 a year for individuals, and $1,500 for families. Households making more than three times the federal poverty level — about $66,000 for a family of four — would face the maximum fines. For families, it would be $3,800, and for individuals, $950.

Baucus would offer carrots as well: tax credits to help pay premiums for households making up to three times the poverty level, and for small employers paying about average middle-class wages. People working for companies that offer coverage could avoid the fines by signing up.

But the fines pose a dilemma for Obama. As a candidate, the president campaigned hard against making health insurance a requirement, saying it's too expensive to mandate. White House officials have since backed away somewhat from that stance, but there's no indication that Obama would support fines.

Meanwhile, an idea that Obama supported during the campaign and has since championed appeared to be in deeper trouble. Prospects for a government insurance option appeared to be sinking fast.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., told reporters a Medicare-like plan for middle-class Americans and their families isn't essential for him to back legislation. Hoyer's comments came shortly after a key Democratic moderate said he could no longer back a bill that includes a new government plan.

-------------------------

^HORRIBLE

And here is what Ron Paul said a couple of months ago...

Introducing the Coercion is Not Health Care Act

Ron Paul Speech to Congress

May 21, 2009

  http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=1222

Madam Speaker, today I am introducing the Coercion is Not Health Care Act. This legislation forbids the Federal Government from forcing any American to purchase health insurance, and from conditioning participation in any Federal program, or receipt of any Federal benefit, on the purchase of health insurance.

While often marketed as a "moderate" compromise between nationalized health care and a free market solution, forcing every American to purchase a government-approved health insurance plan is a back door approach to creating a government-controlled health care system.

If Congress requires individuals to purchase insurance, Congress must define what insurance policies satisfy the government mandate. Thus, Congress will decide what is and is not covered in the mandatory insurance policy. Does anyone seriously doubt that what conditions and treatments are covered will be determined by who has the most effective lobby. Or that Congress will be incapable of writing a mandatory insurance policy that will fit the unique needs of every individual in the United States?

The experience of States that allow their legislatures to mandate what benefits health insurance plans must cover has shown that politicizing health insurance inevitably makes health insurance more expensive. As the cost of government-mandated health insurance rises, Congress will likely create yet another fiscally unsustainable entitlement program to help cover the cost of insurance.

When the cost of government-mandated insurance proves to be an unsustainable burden on individuals and small employers, and the government, Congress will likely impose price controls on medical treatments, and even go so far as to limit what procedures and treatments will be reimbursed by the mandatory insurance. The result will be an increasing number of providers turning to "cash only" practices, thus making it difficult for those relying on the government-mandated insurance to find health care. Anyone who doubts that result should consider the increasing number of physicians who are withdrawing from the Medicare program because of the low reimbursement and constant bureaucratic harassment from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

Madam Speaker, the key to effective health care reform lies not in increasing government control, but in increasing the American people's ability to make their own health care decisions. Thus, instead of forcing Americans to purchase government-approved health insurance, Congress should put the American people back in charge of health care by expanding health care tax credits and deductions, as well as increasing access to Health Savings Accounts. Therefore, I have introduced legislation, the Comprehensive Health Care Reform Act (H.R. 1495), which provides a series of health care tax credits and deductions designed to empower patients. I urge my colleagues to reject the big government-knows-best approach to health care by cosponsoring my Coercion is Not Health Care Act and Comprehensive Health Care Reform Act.

[Nailec]

my fucking god with youre stupid shit already.  No one is fucking talking about jews. 

you are not telling me to shut up when you have acutally not a clue what the NWO theories are often about.

go to youtube and find out what alex jones says about foreigners.

or go to american free press and count, how many times israel or jews are mentioned.

you all think youre so subversive because you read those underground-authors. but it has a good reason they are underground and noone cares about them.

hey variable. its pretty late for me now but i have to do this. i am sorry for this last post coz i writed this when i was pretty upset. i write this before i read the answer from you to it:

i apologoize for what i write since i made a bad fault by not differentiate between you and others and between the 911 "trtuther" scene.

i know there are many people that arent satisfied with the official version of 911 and that have good reasons not to be satisfied. therefore it is ok to be on a mission for the real truth, if there is one and if it can be found out.

what i want to express here is that i dont feel comfortable when guys like you agree with jerry, who agrees with alex jones, who agrees with holocaust deniers and racists. there are other ways to question 911. free from this simplified NWO stuff that jerry posts on this board.

always be critic about the government and politics but plz dont work together with antidemocratic, antiamerican, nationalist, racist, antisemite forces. they shouldnt be your allies.

i have no idea who you are reading and who not. but please dont agree with jerrys god Alex Jones

[Nailec]

What are you even talking about?  I don't read a dam thing from underground authors.  The last two books I read were written by Jessie Ventura and Steven Hawking.  I don't hardly pay any attention to Alex Jones at all.  You're the one that reads these bat shit crazy authors that can turn literally anything into an attack on Jews.  The fucked up part is that you buy into it.  We were not saying a dam thing about foreigners or Jews.  I was talking about a historical even which is 100% true.  No conspiracy theories needed because the US government straight admitted it happened.  The office of the president said this.  No fucking underground authors you fucking jackass.  Don't come at me like that saying I read crazy shit or I don't know what I'm talking about when you have borderline insanity paranoia about the world hating Jews.  No one gives a shit about Jews.  I could fucking care less about them.  That doesn't mean I hate them.  It means I just don't give a shit what is going on in the Hebrew world 24/7.  like your insane obsessing ass does.  Get over it already because you are the one chasing shadows that aren't there.  You're the conspiracy theorist.  Josh and I were talking about confirmed events.  And just because you created this thread does not mean you control the contents.  We are more than on topic here. 

i just had the impression that when you said that Obama doesnt want to reveal the truth, youre 100% agreeing with jerry and his links to Alex Jones related sites. i guess and i hope that that is not true.

please just leave you have nothing to say worth mentioning. your a pest, better yet a disease to this board

blablabla. watch your vocabulary. i know that you dont care. but as a german i have hard time that poeple compare other people to diseases. same goes for insects. i hope you understand.

[Nailec]

It was all my fault. Sorry. :0(

you all started this by quoting from americanfreepress. this made clear to me that you dont care for your instruments but only for your aims and ideology.

this "news" site was not only founded by a holocaust denier, but every 3rd article mentions and blames israel or some jews for everything bad that happens in America.

your friend Alex Jones has a lot of links to this site and other racists/nationalists that appeared on his show.

i guess Jones just offers the most easy way to "critisize" the government.

[Variable]

my fucking god with youre stupid shit already.  No one is fucking talking about jews. 

you are not telling me to shut up when you have acutally not a clue what the NWO theories are often about.

go to youtube and find out what alex jones says about foreigners.

or go to american free press and count, how many times israel or jews are mentioned.

you all think youre so subversive because you read those underground-authors. but it has a good reason they are underground and noone cares about them.

hey variable. its pretty late for me now but i have to do this. i am sorry for this last post coz i writed this when i was pretty upset. i write this before i read the answer from you to it:

i apologoize for what i write since i made a bad fault by not differentiate between you and others and between the 911 "trtuther" scene.

i know there are many people that arent satisfied with the official version of 911 and that have good reasons not to be satisfied. therefore it is ok to be on a mission for the real truth, if there is one and if it can be found out.

what i want to express here is that i dont feel comfortable when guys like you agree with jerry, who agrees with alex jones, who agrees with holocaust deniers and racists. there are other ways to question 911. free from this simplified NWO stuff that jerry posts on this board.

always be critic about the government and politics but plz dont work together with antidemocratic, antiamerican, nationalist, racist, antisemite forces. they shouldnt be your allies.

i have no idea who you are reading and who not. but please dont agree with jerrys god Alex Jones

Its all good bro.  I felt bad after I posted that too.  It just kind of pissed me off.  Honestly, you really do turn to that way too much.  There are other things that go on in this world. 

I just like to keep an open mind to all information.  If not, how do I know that I really know.  You know?

[Jerry_Curls]

my fucking god with youre stupid shit already.  No one is fucking talking about jews. 

you are not telling me to shut up when you have acutally not a clue what the NWO theories are often about.

go to youtube and find out what alex jones says about foreigners.

or go to american free press and count, how many times israel or jews are mentioned.

you all think youre so subversive because you read those underground-authors. but it has a good reason they are underground and noone cares about them.

hey variable. its pretty late for me now but i have to do this. i am sorry for this last post coz i writed this when i was pretty upset. i write this before i read the answer from you to it:

i apologoize for what i write since i made a bad fault by not differentiate between you and others and between the 911 "trtuther" scene.

i know there are many people that arent satisfied with the official version of 911 and that have good reasons not to be satisfied. therefore it is ok to be on a mission for the real truth, if there is one and if it can be found out.

what i want to express here is that i dont feel comfortable when guys like you agree with jerry, who agrees with alex jones, who agrees with holocaust deniers and racists. there are other ways to question 911. free from this simplified NWO stuff that jerry posts on this board.

always be critic about the government and politics but plz dont work together with antidemocratic, antiamerican, nationalist, racist, antisemite forces. they shouldnt be your allies.

i have no idea who you are reading and who not. but please dont agree with jerrys god Alex Jones

I

Fuck yoooouuuuuuuu.

Stop pretending you know me. I don't even listen to Alex Jones. I may have seen 3 documentaries of his and read articles by him doesn't mean he's my god. You probably apologized to Trey because you're tried of being owned by him and his awesome writing skills. You're a horrible person. You spew out lies and try to make me look like something I'm not. It's always you CALLING me names like a little bitch and never try to disprove the articles or videos I post. I have never claimed you were anything [well I've probably said fag or stupid, but that isn't the same thing as NAZI or ANTI-SEMETIC] Stop fucking talking shit about me and be respectful. YOU DON'T KNOW ME.

[Jacob]

this is exaclty why I hate discussing politics and religion on in the internet, or actually at all. you can't change people or prove them wrong, you will only end up fighting.

more love and less hatred, pls.

[Nailec]

besides linking multiple times to alex jones articles, videos or websites you once quoted an article from americanfreepress. i took a look at this article and the side and for every clear thhinking man it is so obvious that this site promotes the ideo of a jewish world conspiracy. in the meantime i found out that one of the founders of this site is a holocaust denier which kinda confirmed my impression of the site. alex jones is connected to americanfreepress because he had guests on his show who wrote for this site.
if you dont see the problem i have with this, i give up all my hopes.

so why would you support institutions and people that promote that kind of hatred if you dont support it on your own?

how can i disproove your articles and videos? enough other people that know your country better did it for me. they make up imaginative "experts" and work with facts that are absolutely immun against any try to disproove em. which makes it a pseudo-argumentation. i know the ideology and that is enough for me. other people disprooved the moon landing conspiracies or the several alternative theories on 911.

[Jerry_Curls]

watch this.

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZyKR2-A0KPU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZyKR2-A0KPU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]

[Necrocetaceanbeastiality]

my fucking god with youre stupid shit already.  No one is fucking talking about jews. 

you are not telling me to shut up when you have acutally not a clue what the NWO theories are often about.

go to youtube and find out what alex jones says about foreigners.

or go to american free press and count, how many times israel or jews are mentioned.

you all think youre so subversive because you read those underground-authors. but it has a good reason they are underground and noone cares about them.

I fucking hate Alex Jones, not because he's an anti-semite, but because he's a naive piece of shit that just uses even more scare tactics which our society has had way too much of.

You can turn ANYthing into anti-semetism. Which is exceptionally retarded because of the way you do it. You link one person to another person who has an ideal that may be interpereted as anti-semetic. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THIS ORIGINAL PERSON OR THOUGHT IS ANTI-SEMETIC. BY THIS LOGIC I COULD PROVE THAT YOU ARE A WHITE SUPREMACIST. Shut the FUCK up with this anti-semite bullshit. It's beyond annoying now and has gotten into the realm of just pissing me the fuck off every time I see it.

Just so you know, I like you man, you've got a lot of interesting stuff to say, but this is just beyond stupidity and naivety.  I'm sorry if I came off like a dick, but you have no idea how infuriating that shit is.

[wither-I]

alex jones is just too loud

[Nailec]

seems no one here is interested in me explaining how 911 was an antisemtic attack (which doesnt mean that it was antisemitic only besides being antiamerican).

lol

my fucking god with youre stupid shit already.  No one is fucking talking about jews. 

you are not telling me to shut up when you have acutally not a clue what the NWO theories are often about.

go to youtube and find out what alex jones says about foreigners.

or go to american free press and count, how many times israel or jews are mentioned.

you all think youre so subversive because you read those underground-authors. but it has a good reason they are underground and noone cares about them.

I fucking hate Alex Jones, not because he's an anti-semite, but because he's a naive piece of shit that just uses even more scare tactics which our society has had way too much of.

You can turn ANYthing into anti-semetism. Which is exceptionally retarded because of the way you do it. You link one person to another person who has an ideal that may be interpereted as anti-semetic. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THIS ORIGINAL PERSON OR THOUGHT IS ANTI-SEMETIC. BY THIS LOGIC I COULD PROVE THAT YOU ARE A WHITE SUPREMACIST. Shut the FUCK up with this anti-semite bullshit. It's beyond annoying now and has gotten into the realm of just pissing me the fuck off every time I see it.

Just so you know, I like you man, you've got a lot of interesting stuff to say, but this is just beyond stupidity and naivety.  I'm sorry if I came off like a dick, but you have no idea how infuriating that shit is.

so denying the holocaust or thinking the whole world is run by jews (as american free press did and does) is just maybe antisemitic?

its a rethorical question anyways. my aim was not to piss of people but to open their eyes for these links that i think are pretty important. so enough now. i cannot force you to find out who is in alex jones`buddy club.

[Necrocetaceanbeastiality]

That's not the point. Damn near every fucking post you make is you spouting off about how anti-semetic someone is based on a club they are somewhat associated with that maybe one of the people in said club might be an anti-semite. Like I said before, by that logic, I could be an anti-semite because I have friends that know skinheads.

It's fucking retarded.

[Jerry_Curls]

Srsly...can someone back me up in that I don't need this harrassment?

[Necrocetaceanbeastiality]

I kinda am.

Indirectly?

[wither-I]

seems no one here is interested in me explaining how 911 was an antisemtic attack (which doesnt mean that it was antisemitic only besides being antiamerican).

lol

my fucking god with youre stupid shit already.  No one is fucking talking about jews. 

you are not telling me to shut up when you have acutally not a clue what the NWO theories are often about.

go to youtube and find out what alex jones says about foreigners.

or go to american free press and count, how many times israel or jews are mentioned.

you all think youre so subversive because you read those underground-authors. but it has a good reason they are underground and noone cares about them.

I fucking hate Alex Jones, not because he's an anti-semite, but because he's a naive piece of shit that just uses even more scare tactics which our society has had way too much of.

You can turn ANYthing into anti-semetism. Which is exceptionally retarded because of the way you do it. You link one person to another person who has an ideal that may be interpereted as anti-semetic. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THIS ORIGINAL PERSON OR THOUGHT IS ANTI-SEMETIC. BY THIS LOGIC I COULD PROVE THAT YOU ARE A WHITE SUPREMACIST. Shut the FUCK up with this anti-semite bullshit. It's beyond annoying now and has gotten into the realm of just pissing me the fuck off every time I see it.

Just so you know, I like you man, you've got a lot of interesting stuff to say, but this is just beyond stupidity and naivety.  I'm sorry if I came off like a dick, but you have no idea how infuriating that shit is.

so denying the holocaust or thinking the whole world is run by jews (as american free press did and does) is just maybe antisemitic?

its a rethorical question anyways. my aim was not to piss of people but to open their eyes for these links that i think are pretty important. so enough now. i cannot force you to find out who is in alex jones`buddy club.

tell me how 9/11 was an antisemite attack?? that makes absolutely no fucking sense. many many people died, of all ethnic backgrounds. and the people who have suffered the worst from the aftermath are arab/muslim people... where is your logic?

and who in america is denying the holocaust?? as i have come to notice there is much attention paid to that era and event. every year in school we learned about it. there were huge blockbuster movies made about it (schindler's list), and you really cant even escape it.. but im sure you dont know that because you DONT live in america, you DONT go to school here, and you DONT have the slightest fucking clue what your talking about.. its sad really, you should self-evaluate your life and fanatical beliefs, youve become completely obsessed with these ideas. your dillusional. you have no backing. no one cares about you. your a fundamental radical who will prob end up commiting some horrenous crime over your belief just like a goddamnn mormon.

[devlin]

seems no one here is interested in me explaining how 911 was an antisemtic attack (which doesnt mean that it was antisemitic only besides being antiamerican).

lol

my fucking god with youre stupid shit already.  No one is fucking talking about jews. 

you are not telling me to shut up when you have acutally not a clue what the NWO theories are often about.

go to youtube and find out what alex jones says about foreigners.

or go to american free press and count, how many times israel or jews are mentioned.

you all think youre so subversive because you read those underground-authors. but it has a good reason they are underground and noone cares about them.

I fucking hate Alex Jones, not because he's an anti-semite, but because he's a naive piece of shit that just uses even more scare tactics which our society has had way too much of.

You can turn ANYthing into anti-semetism. Which is exceptionally retarded because of the way you do it. You link one person to another person who has an ideal that may be interpereted as anti-semetic. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THIS ORIGINAL PERSON OR THOUGHT IS ANTI-SEMETIC. BY THIS LOGIC I COULD PROVE THAT YOU ARE A WHITE SUPREMACIST. Shut the FUCK up with this anti-semite bullshit. It's beyond annoying now and has gotten into the realm of just pissing me the fuck off every time I see it.

Just so you know, I like you man, you've got a lot of interesting stuff to say, but this is just beyond stupidity and naivety.  I'm sorry if I came off like a dick, but you have no idea how infuriating that shit is.

so denying the holocaust or thinking the whole world is run by jews (as american free press did and does) is just maybe antisemitic?

its a rethorical question anyways. my aim was not to piss of people but to open their eyes for these links that i think are pretty important. so enough now. i cannot force you to find out who is in alex jones`buddy club.

tell me how 9/11 was an antisemite attack?? that makes absolutely no fucking sense. many many people died, of all ethnic backgrounds. and the people who have suffered the worst from the aftermath are arab/muslim people... where is your logic?

and who in america is denying the holocaust?? as i have come to notice there is much attention paid to that era and event. every year in school we learned about it. there were huge blockbuster movies made about it (schindler's list), and you really cant even escape it.. but im sure you dont know that because you DONT live in america, you DONT go to school here, and you DONT have the slightest fucking clue what your talking about.. its sad really, you should self-evaluate your life and fanatical beliefs, youve become completely obsessed with these ideas. your dillusional. you have no backing. no one cares about you. your a fundamental radical who will prob end up commiting some horrenous crime over your belief just like a goddamnn mormon.

i agreed with you up to the last sentence. then you just lost me. what do you mean by "just like a mormon"? are you refering to polygamy and underage wives?

i think the most obvious reference would be him commiting a "horrendous crime for his beliefs" just like 9/11 was fueled by.

[wither-I]

i meant just that. commiting horrendous crimes according to the fundamental creed of "blood atonement". not polygamy.

have you read "under the banner of heaven"?

[devlin]

oh ok. no i have not. is it about

commiting horrendous crimes according to the fundamental creed of "blood atonement".

cause that sounds interesting. who is it by?