Politics, Society etc.

[Nailec]

and "one man alone"? it sounds like you think he puts on a superhero costume and flies out in the night to save the world.

what? i was saying that others seem to expect exactly that from him.
like you did in this rethorical question.

is it ridiculous to expect from the allegedly most powerful man on earth?

especially when he has promised such things?

there is no way he has promised that. this is exactly that kind of propaganda i am opposing to. just randomly claim things. all he has promised was change. if you understood this as a real-political promise than of course your dissappointed now.

just pointing the finger on obama and totally ignoring all the forces and lobbies that work against him is just so wrong.

[Nailec]

perhaps he gets the price another time when mankind finally lives in communism 

[alvarezbassist17]

Maybe they gave it to him because when he finishes bankrupting the US we'll be a lot more peaceful?

I am actually genuinely insulted by this.  It's pretty much like they awarded him just because he's not Bush, and he hasn't done shit to change Bush's policies; HE STILL HAS THE SAME SECRETARY OF DEFENSE.  Nailec, we're not saying he has to have done everything he promised by now to deserve the Prize, but he.  hasn't.  done.  anything.  He just started with a higher global approval rating than any other president because #1 he's not Bush, #2 he doesn't belong to Bush's party and #3 because he's not a white guy that people can just assume is an evil "suit."  The fact is, he has escalated our war-mongering and bombings of innocent people using the exact same rhetoric as Bush and people just look the other way now because he says it nicer. 

[Nailec]

he stopped the missile shield, his speech in kairo, investions in green energy, he brought america relatively mildly through the financial crisis, the list probablly goes on.

how can you say he has not done anything?

The fact is, he has escalated our war-mongering and bombings of innocent people using the exact same rhetoric as Bush and people just look the other way now because he says it nicer

human rights > sovereignty

of course all the us troops do is bombing innocent people. 

you ever thought about that you use exact the same rhetoric as terrorists or nationalists?

[alvarezbassist17]

Wow, you're really great at watching mainstream media and his speeches. 

1.  He didn't stop the missile shield.  He just changed it from air defense to water defense and gave it a more politically correct name. 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-10/08/content_12195291.htm

2.  That was a very well-written speech, and it's great that he improves our country's image, but it's really all words that haven't been followed up with actions in the direction he's speaking of.  He's escalating all of our military operations in the Middle East.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hkAXS0HTzkXeKMKJ8BFxiuculsPA

3.  All this "green energy" shit is not something good, despite what it sounds.  It's all fear-mongering based on the non-science of the global warming theory.  Moving towards sustainable energy is extremely important, don't get me wrong.  The transition to it should not be taxing people more and more and more and more for every little thing that they do when they don't have a choice to use anything but the non-"green" sources.  Humanity is working towards sustainable, efficient energy more quickly than ever before, and halting our economy with cap-and-trade is going to do nothing but slow that down. 

4.  Last time I checked we were still in the financial crisis, unemployment is consistently rising and the bad debts that fucked us over in the first place have not been alleviated under natural market conditions.

5.  You really think that world peace is going to be achieved by putting more troops into place rather than actual peaceful, not forceful, diplomacy?

6.  You have a really messed up concept of human rights.  I urge you to watch this video (there's six more parts linked in the related videos) and learn a few things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Lb8YitPs8

[Jerry_Curls]

- Hasn't gotten rid of the Patriot Act [horrible fucking name]

[Jerry_Curls]

Congress' secret plan to pass OBAMACARE

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/10/07/congress%E2%80%99-secret-plan-to-pass-obamacare-confirmed/
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message895597/pg1

Leaders in the House and Senate have a plan to pass President Barack Obama's sweeping health care plan by Thanksgiving without any significant participation by the American public. CNS News has confirmed the details in our September 22nd titled "Passing a Shell of A Bill: Congress' Secret Plan to Ram Through Health Care Reform." Nicholas Ballasy reports "a senior aide to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) told CNSNews.com that it is 'likely' that Reid will use H.R. 1586—a bill passed by the House in March to impose a 90-percent tax on bonuses paid to employees of certain bailed-out financial institutions—as a 'shell' for enacting the final version of the Senate's health care bill, which Reid is responsible for crafting."

This story confirms the four part scenario that would railroad the bill through the Senate using a very unusual closed door procedure to craft the bill with no input from the American people.

The four stage plan to pass Obamacare has been publicly confirmed and is ready to be implemented. The following is a comprehensive update:

Step One: "The Senate Finance Committee will finish work on the marking up of Senator Max Baucus' (D-MT) conceptual framework for legislation by this Friday." Progress on this had been stalled and the bill was not passed by the end of last week. Foxnews.com is reporting that the Congressional Budget Office score of the bill will be released later today and a high score may further stall progress on the Committee's Vapor Bill.  Senate Finance Committee's progress on passing something out of committee – INCOMPLETE.

Step Two: Next, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will take the final product of the Senate Finance Committee and merge it with the product of the Senate Health, Education, Labor & Pensions (HELP) Committee. CNSnews.com has confirmed that "the actual final text of the legislation will be determined by Reid himself, who will consolidate the legislation approved by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee and the still-unapproved legislation from the Senate Finance Committee. Reid will be able to draft and insert textual language that was not expressly approved by either committee." Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will write the final version of Obamacare to be considered in the Senate with no input from the American people. This is an extremely complex procedure that will not be done in public, or in the form of a hearing, or a public conference committee, and only Senator Harry Reid, some other Senators chosen by Reid and Obama Administration officials will be allowed to read the bill before the Senate debate starts. Merger of the bills – IN PROGRESS.

Step Three: Senator Reid will then move to proceed to H.R. 1586, a bill to impose a tax on bonuses received by certain TARP recipients. A senior aid to Senate Majority Leader Ried has confirmed that he will move to proceed to Senate Calendar Number 36, H.R. 1586, or another House passed tax measure, so the Senate can avoid the Constitutional mandate that tax bills originate in the House. Proceed to tax shell of a bill – CONFIRMED.

Step Four: This scenario would most likely be implemented after the Massachusetts state legislature gives Governor Deval Patrick the power to appoint a new Senator and that Senator is seated by the Senate. The Senate swore in new Massachusetts Senator Paul Kirk on September 25th. Change Law of Massachusetts to allow for interim Senator – COMPLETE.

The final step in this plan is for the House to take up Obama care, without amending the legislation, and then sending that bill directly to the President for his signature. Matt Cover at CNSnews.com reports "House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) won't rule out having the House vote on the Senate health-care bill without making any changes in it, which would allow the bill to go directly to President Barack Obama without having to pass through a House-Senate conference committee and another round of votes in the House and Senate–and a longer period of public scrutiny of what the text of the proposed law actually says." This scenario is in the process of being implemented and, if successful, it will result in Obamacare being on the President's desk in time for Thansgiving with minimal participation of the American public.

The San Francisco Examiner published an editorial today that exposed the fact that the American people can't see the bill. "When then-Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama promised not to sign major legislation until it had been posted on the Internet for public reading at least five days, trusting voters took him at his word. Now they know better. Not only is the actual language of what is likely to become the main legislative vehicle for Obama's signature health care reform not available on the Internet, it hasn't been given to members of the key Senate committees or the Congressional Budget Office." The procedure being used, in addition to the exclusion of the American people from the process, should be of grave concern to all who want to participate in democracy and have a say in Congress' health care reforms that will touch 1/6th of the American economy.

[wither-I]

Maybe they gave it to him because when he finishes bankrupting the US we'll be a lot more peaceful?

I am actually genuinely insulted by this.  It's pretty much like they awarded him just because he's not Bush, and he hasn't done shit to change Bush's policies; HE STILL HAS THE SAME SECRETARY OF DEFENSE.  Nailec, we're not saying he has to have done everything he promised by now to deserve the Prize, but he.  hasn't.  done.  anything.  He just started with a higher global approval rating than any other president because #1 he's not Bush, #2 he doesn't belong to Bush's party and #3 because he's not a white guy that people can just assume is an evil "suit."  The fact is, he has escalated our war-mongering and bombings of innocent people using the exact same rhetoric as Bush and people just look the other way now because he says it nicer. 

good points.

human rights > sovereignty

of course all the us troops do is bombing innocent people. 

you ever thought about that you use exact the same rhetoric as terrorists or nationalists?

i think its cute how you are duped into believing the same rhetoric of promise and change (of Obama's) as your favourite little trickster Adolf Hitler applied when seizing the feeble hearts of your grandparents and an enire country (for the most part).

it really really funny how you are so revolted by crimes against nature, and are a human rights activist supreme (via internet message boards) AND STILL support the favour of a war -under THE SAME deception every ruler has implemented, that of; "we are doing the right thing to rid of terrorsim and restore democracy blah blah fucking blah...)

terrorism(definition); the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce for political purposes!
sooooooooo who's terrorizing who??
BRING THESE PEOPLE OUR DEMOCRACY AND WAY OF LIFE. even if we have to slaughter a few million in the grey area

for once i wish you could be that innocent iraqi, or vietnamese, or jew, with your family caught in the crossfire, and THEN we will see what direction you throw your STONES!!

you have become the enemy through your fervent and deluded fundamental views, based off YOUR OWN fear and REGRETS.
the sad fact is your still a goddamn nazi, just of a different banner and creed. you have once again been heart-fucked by a goverment puppet. how does it feel to lose your mind and have your righteous bridge swept out from under your feet by the same army you bargain with... keep watching from a distance and pretend your all progressive, pseudo-intellectal mumbo jumbo while you feed the machine your own guts. keep clowning maybe you'll be bombed next

[Nailec]

are you able to have any argumentation without insulting me?

[theis]

i think its cute how you are duped into believing the same rhetoric of promise and change (of Obama's) as your favourite little trickster Adolf Hitler applied when seizing the feeble hearts of your grandparents and an enire country (for the most part).

Come on, man. Did you just compare Obama and Hitler?

[wither-I]

i think its cute how you are duped into believing the same rhetoric of promise and change (of Obama's) as your favourite little trickster Adolf Hitler applied when seizing the feeble hearts of your grandparents and an enire country (for the most part).

Come on, man. Did you just compare Obama and Hitler?

actually i am. its the principle. the promise. the false prophecy. there ae many things to compare. do i think obama will implement a racial genocide, no? but there ARE things to compare. he IS a war time leader, and in times of killing  i WILL compare with other killers ya dig


he's just another puppet. he's no good guy.

bring me real change. real hope. NOT 21,000 more troops. thats the farthest thing from it

[wither-I]

obama reminds of of the great mayor of new orleans, ray nagin.

he's in it for the "white man" agenda

[Variable]

i think its cute how you are duped into believing the same rhetoric of promise and change (of Obama's) as your favourite little trickster Adolf Hitler applied when seizing the feeble hearts of your grandparents and an enire country (for the most part).

Come on, man. Did you just compare Obama and Hitler?

actually i am. its the principle. the promise. the false prophecy. there ae many things to compare. do i think obama will implement a racial genocide, no? but there ARE things to compare. he IS a war time leader, and in times of killing  i WILL compare with other killers ya dig


he's just another puppet. he's no good guy.

bring me real change. real hope. NOT 21,000 more troops. thats the farthest thing from it

Yeah.  We need at least 40,000 more.

But seriously, here is my take on the troop levels in Afghanistan.  Were either going to do this , or were not.  By this I mean fight a war.  I would rather just pull out of everywhere and bring everyone home tomorrow and just focus on ourselves and border security.  But, since it seems like the large majority in congress think that its essential to our security to get a stable Afghanistan.  Fuck it, lets do it.  Send over enough people to get the job done.  Lets quit barely getting by and prolonging this and just send over what we got and do the dam thing.  Provide enough security to get the Afghan government and Security forces where we need them to be, without having to worry about them fighting a war in the building process.  Then get the fuck out.  This whole sending just enough troops to barely get by is bull shit.  It keeps it where were dying, but staying alive just enough to keep the country from getting back into Taliban hands.  Its stupid.  Sending over that large of a force would most likely save lives on both sides in the end.  The US live for obvious reasons.  Afghan lives because we would be able to provide them the security they need to not be intimidated by the Taliban and be forced to go fight with them or die (in a nut shell).  Make sense? 

Oh and I agree with your comparison of Obama and Hitler

[Jerry_Curls]

^^ Wither-I. Great job at laying the smackdown! :-)

You know who are the terrorists now? WE ARE. TV programs show white, american men..."homegrown" terrorists are what this government has started to turn it's attention to. These homegrown terrorists are people who have Ron Paul stickers on their car, people who read the Constitution, people who obssess over the 2nd amendment...don't believe me? EDIT: The MIAC Strategic Report 09' [ http://www.scribd.com/doc/13290698/The-Modern-Militia-MovementMissouri-MIAC-Strategic-Report-20Feb09-]  shows police how to spot out said "Terrorists."
They have tricked people after 9/11 that terrorists were "brown people", muslims, etc. They have turned the tables and made it so that WE are the terrorists. ANYONE can be one. Even your neighbor...

Home Network Awareness Program Announced
03/18/08
http://www.dhsnnw.org/hnap.html

The Neighborhood Network Watch announced today the start of a new community program, the Home Network Awareness Program (HNAP). HNAP is aimed at providing an easy way for people to get involved and to contribute to the efforts of the Neighborhood Network Watch as well as providing the group with valuable information on the states of networks that reside in the homes of our nation.

Participants in HNAP would collect sample network traffic from their own home networks as well as samples from networks within the vicinity. The Neighborhood Network Watch will be making a set of freely available instructions on how to capture network traffic, using the open source packet sniffer TCPDUMP, and how to log onto nearby wireless networks that maybe being operated by neighbors.

These samples of network traffic would then be sent to the Neighborhood Network Watch for analysis using the latest revision of the NNWKAA. The participants would then be sent back a rating for each network along with a rating for the area as a whole.

This allows the participants to not only find out how their own home network is being used but also valuable information about those around their home that may have large amounts of terrorist related traffic flowing over them. This also provides the Neighborhood Network Watch with the ability to see if there is potential terrorist cell activity in or around the participants homes.

The Neighborhood Network Watch will also be releasing a new public service announcement highlighting the goals of HNAP and a how to section on how to search for networks as well as how to capture network traffic.

To learn more about the Home Network Awareness Program click here.

How to sniff out your neighbor's network...
http://www.dhsnnw.org/HNAPDocs/NNW-HNAP-How%20To%20Sniff%20Wireless%20Traffic.pdf

They have started to make people snoop around...to spy on your neighbors. How would you like to see a DHS video from Colorado that shows the 8 SIGNS OF TERRORISM.

[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jHjI6mj1jOA&rel=0&border=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jHjI6mj1jOA&rel=0&border=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>[/youtube]
Some words from a infowars article:

"Using a watch, a pair of binoculars, or donating to a charity are all potential Al-Qaeda behavior, the video implies.
Do you use e mail or the telephone to find out information about things? You're probably a terrorist, according to the DHS, which classifies such behavior as "elicitation," one of the eight signs of terror.

Do you occasionally monitor police radio, as thousands did during the recent G20 protests in Pittsburgh? You're a terrorist.

Do you notice surveillance cameras or occasionally attempt to watch big brother back? You're a terrorist.
Petty criminal behavior such as theft and trespassing is also flagged as a sign of terrorism."
http://www.infowars.com/dhs-video-portrays-average-americans-as-terrorists/

These people look like AMERICANS. I thought that terrorists were people from other countries who hate DEMOCRACY!

This all goes back to when the bailouts were starting. They knew the American people would get mad, so they are now starting to paint regular American as terrorits and you know, since terrorists are bad, lets get rid of them.

This government now uses social networking as a way to keep track on people...we can't get away from this surveillance. Want to see what the government wants this country to look like:




I know I might be rambling, but a lot of things are finally starting to connect [in my head]. THINK FOR YOURSELF, QUESTION AUTHORITY.



-

[Jerry_Curls]

And here is my opinion on Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize thing...

If he had pulled out of Afghanistan, Iraq, got rid of Bush's policies, closed Guantanamo prison, gotten rid of the Patriot Act...then I would think he should be awarded the Nobel Peace prize. Yet, all his actions are the opposite of peace.

WAR IS PEACE

EDIT: Here is what Ron Paul has to say about Obama winning this "prize"...you should watch this

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FbcDk-bNoc8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FbcDk-bNoc8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]

[Nailec]

You know who are the terrorists now? WE ARE. TV programs show white, american men..."homegrown" terrorists are what this government has started to turn it's attention to. These homegrown terrorists are people who have Ron Paul stickers on their car, people who read the Constitution, people who obssess over the 2nd amendment...don't believe me? EDIT: The MIAC Strategic Report 09' [ http://www.scribd.com/doc/13290698/The-Modern-Militia-MovementMissouri-MIAC-Strategic-Report-20Feb09-]  shows police how to spot out said "Terrorists."
They have tricked people after 9/11 that terrorists were "brown people", muslims, etc. They have turned the tables and made it so that WE are the terrorists. ANYONE can be one. Even your neighbor...

now without reading the article that follows i gotta say that i heard about a lot of hate speeches against the obama regime that really crossed the line from critizism to call for a violent revolution. my source to this would be several videos of the young turks radio show. probablly your number 1 hate show but as you probablly expect i like a lot of what is been said there.

that said i gotta admit that i like the tone of ron paul. he never gets insulting. he has a strong opinion and a stringent argumentation. unfortunatly he is on the wrong side to my eyes. couple of thoughts to your last video.

1.) where is the anti-imperialistic left aka the anti-war left.
well this left has certainly not been neutralized by obama. speaking for the german left i would say that they have grown up. the whole black block that is going out on the street and throws stones against cops or violently demonstrated against the g8 in Heiligendamm, consisted of kids who think that america is somehow shitty. most likely after 9/11/2001 the far left antifacsist started to reconsider their positions. as a consequence of that a big part of it stoppped to demonize usa and israel and started being interested in political islam and its ideology. that is just the far left. a part of it even supported the war in iraq (i did not, i took part in the anti-war demonstration in berlin).

2.) what about all the others?
well they just dont share Ron Pauls focus on the own nation. ron paul is absolutely right when he says that our involvement over there is somehow connected to terrorist attacks against the west. but most people just dont draw the conclusion that all we have to do is to stay in our own country. and i agree that it would be absolutely irresponsibly to leave afghanistan and iraq within a week or something.

the pro-peace movement just gives no good answers and concepts on what to do with extreme human right violations in other countries. i really cant understand how, in our globalized world, such things can be ignored. wither-i wished me that i should live in a country that is being bombed. i could counter to him that i wish him to be a gay women in iran.

just to be clear. war is the ultimatly last option to anything. a strong international community that oppose together against human rights violations and create pressure against those criminals is probablly one of the most important things. but just look at this fucked up united nations thing.
it is a complicated time and we got a lot of complicated situations. its just so easy to stay uninvolved with everything.

[Nailec]

go damnit

[wither-I]

i think its cute how you are duped into believing the same rhetoric of promise and change (of Obama's) as your favourite little trickster Adolf Hitler applied when seizing the feeble hearts of your grandparents and an enire country (for the most part).

Come on, man. Did you just compare Obama and Hitler?

actually i am. its the principle. the promise. the false prophecy. there ae many things to compare. do i think obama will implement a racial genocide, no? but there ARE things to compare. he IS a war time leader, and in times of killing  i WILL compare with other killers ya dig


he's just another puppet. he's no good guy.

bring me real change. real hope. NOT 21,000 more troops. thats the farthest thing from it

Yeah.  We need at least 40,000 more.

But seriously, here is my take on the troop levels in Afghanistan.  Were either going to do this , or were not.  By this I mean fight a war.  I would rather just pull out of everywhere and bring everyone home tomorrow and just focus on ourselves and border security.  But, since it seems like the large majority in congress think that its essential to our security to get a stable Afghanistan.  Fuck it, lets do it.  Send over enough people to get the job done.  Lets quit barely getting by and prolonging this and just send over what we got and do the dam thing.  Provide enough security to get the Afghan government and Security forces where we need them to be, without having to worry about them fighting a war in the building process.  Then get the fuck out.  This whole sending just enough troops to barely get by is bull shit.  It keeps it where were dying, but staying alive just enough to keep the country from getting back into Taliban hands.  Its stupid.  Sending over that large of a force would most likely save lives on both sides in the end.  The US live for obvious reasons.  Afghan lives because we would be able to provide them the security they need to not be intimidated by the Taliban and be forced to go fight with them or die (in a nut shell).  Make sense? 

Oh and I agree with your comparison of Obama and Hitler

I have alot of respect for you man.
really good points.

though it seems like we dont "want" to end this war, similar to vietnam... because we could if we really wanted to

And here is my opinion on Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize thing...

If he had pulled out of Afghanistan, Iraq, got rid of Bush's policies, closed Guantanamo prison, gotten rid of the Patriot Act...then I would think he should be awarded the Nobel Peace prize. Yet, all his actions are the opposite of peace.

WAR IS PEACE

EDIT: Here is what Ron Paul has to say about Obama winning this "prize"...you should watch this

[youtube=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FbcDk-bNoc8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FbcDk-bNoc8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]

awesome video.

he rejuvenates my faith in a politician to be honest and humble without any mudslinging...

[nonesuch]

variable  -    please explain to me again why we should finish the war in afghanistan? " Because our Congress thinks a safe and stable Afghanistan is important to our security"?   Why the fuck did we go there in the first place, what are we trying to accomplish, and why is it more important to dump billions  into that black hole and destroy the feeble lives of an entire nation while murdering them ceaselessly than to fix the myriad problems in our own country?   


the main reason we went there in the first place was to build a massive pipeline across it,  So why exactly 9 nine years later should we send MORE troops there?  To FUCKING fix afghanistan??  thats the most asinine thing ive ever heard.  Oh poor afghanistan, we want to save you from the evil Taliban, welcome us into your country for a decade while we lay waste to everything youve ever known in the name of peace. 

if you need to justify your penance and your commanded presence there then go ahead and convince yourself your doing something noble

hate to break it to ya,  our government doesn't give a fuck about afghanistan, the people's welfare in it, or the people anywhere, 

its all about control, and setting the yoke stones on our backs

[Variable]

I'm almost positive I said that if I had it my way we would pull out....pretty sure.  I then said that the large majority of congress think we need to stay.  So since I can't have it my #1 way.  The #2 way would be the way to provide security for US troops instead of letting us get fucked up from not having enough forces over there.

You have a really warped view of what the war in Afghanistan is.  I don't know why you can't take it from me, someone who has been there before and has no reason to lie to you about anything.  But I guess for some reason you think you know better than me? 

The fact is that we are not fighting a conventional war over there.  The goal is not to kill as many people as possible until the government gives up.  Its a counter insurgency.  The main focus in a counter insurgency is to get the people on your side, not kill them.  I have heard all that about the pipeline, but I don't think its true.  I have seen no such pipeline or heard of one outside of theory ( but I could be wrong )  I think we went to Afghanistan after 911 because everyone in the world knows thats where Bin Laden was hiding out and planned the attacks.  So congress believes that if we pull out right now, the country will become lawless again and become a safe haven for more attacks to be planned. 

So our goal? Well as they say.  To win the hearts and the minds of the people, provide them with security, and help them build an economy so they can prosper.  It's the whole flag waving spread democracy and capitalism to the world concept.  I'm not saying I agree.  But thats what the majority of decision makers believe so thats the way its going to be unless we elect some different minded people.  So since thats the way its going to be, lets do the dam thing and send enough troops to actually provide security for the Afghans and ourselves.  We are not laying waste to anything.  We are constantly spending millions on building  more infrastructure for them.  The country itself and the economy have grown and improved tremendously in the last 9 years.  We spend more money on rice and beans then we do on bullets.  Of course horrible things still happen.  But its not and intentional goal for the U.S. to go out and do these horrible things.  Usually its because the bad guys pick a fight in a populated area on purpose, hoping we accidentally kill innocent people so they can use it as propaganda to make people like you think people like me are the bad guy.  Ill break it down for you, its just not the way you think it is.