The Ron Paul topic ( aka your candidate sucks topic )

[Variable]

So I was at work today.  And stumbled upon a copy of Ron Paul's The Revolution that belonged to an unsuspecting co-worker that I coerced into my ridiculous 3rd party ways( Even though I should remind you all that Ron Paul was running as a republican, and suspended his campaign after McCain got the nomination).  Then, I turned around and looked at the office copy machine.  I then had a eureka moment.  I took out the book and thumbed to the spot where DR. Paul talks about health care, as I have been promising to type and copy it from the book over a week now.  I took the book, and scanned it, then sent it to my work computer and put it on a thumb drive.  Brilliant, I know.  So here it is.  It doesn't start right off the bat with Health care.  As you can see from the top, he is speaking about economic freedom in this chapter.  But I think going ahead and starting from this part is a nice introduction into his point with health care.  It's only like an extra paragraph.......  or 2 or 3 or 4

Anyone who want's to claim that health care is actually important to them, or that they are informed about the issues, should read this or else you are full of shit.

[bright lights, big city]

Ok, he makes some strong points. I don't know what else to say, my initial belief is that that type of system would never work again here in the states, but it did work half a century ago. Sadly, I just think corporations' greed would go ahead of the citizens' demands and well-being, honestly. Also from I've read and heard about Ron Paul, he doesn't even seem like a Republican. Are you sure he's not going to pull a Lieberman and switch parties, or a Jim Jeffords and be a republican-turned-Independent?

[Variable]

Bud.  I would ask you if you know what the definition of a Republican is?  Ron Paul is one of the only genuine republicans that I have ever seen in the US government since I have been alive.  It is that belief system, that truly represents the Republican party, that is why I call myself a republican.  I'm pretty sure that 99% of the population of America has no idea what the true difference between democrats and republicans are.

[bright lights, big city]

that's good. But yeah, basically I'd say it Clinton representing Democrats, Bush representing Republicans (a couple years ago). Today, it looks like Reagan is the "ideal" Republican. Which I still don't like.
But I must admit, a few things Ron Paul has said, makes perfect sense

[Variable]

you are so wrong about both.  Seriously, google that shit and do some reading about the doctrinal policies of the parties.  Bush is like the ANTI Republican to the T.  He is everything a Republican is not supposed to be.  Bush actually acts a lot more like a democrat than a republican.  That is why the term "republicrats" has come about.  The parties have moved away from their doctrines and have joined and just bicker of stupid issues.  You cant even tell the difference between the parties anymore.

He does make A LOT of sense though.  You should read the whole book though man.  Obviously his plan for America makes a lot more sense when you read it cover to cover. 
yes people, that is right.  He doesn't just say he is going to change shit, then not tell you how.  Doesn't just answer how he would bring about all these ideals and innovations to the white house.  But not tell you what the ideals and innovations are.  He wrote a whole book to tell you exactly how he would change America.  Do voters really see no value in direct, precise speaking?  Obama is so Abstract that he might as well say nothing at all.  McCain....well.....thats self explanatory

[devilinside]

LOL.....Ron Paul

[Variable]

ok.......

[devilinside]

I'm just kiddang

[Variable]

I know it. 

[defskull]

Hmmm.  I should just go out and buy this book.

[Jerry_Curls]

LOL.....Ron Paul

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"
-Ghandi

What is his name funny? You know what.. I laugh at Obama whenever I hear him speak and all the sheep listen to him like he's the next JFK. Yeah right. Why don't these nominees actually talk/debate about what's important to THIS country and not being imperialistic, caring about other countries, spreading "democracy". There are people out there that actually care about this country, yet all you people want to hear about is "change" and "progress"

Watch this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEw0qKjP7hk

[defskull]

Exactly.  But then the majority of people just don't understand third party candidates and I don't know why.  I feel like most Americans have been taught to expect certain things from their candidates, things that are safe.  Many people thought Ron Paul was making a mistake for running as a Republican because he didn't share Republican values, but in reality he was the only true Republican running.  I find this all rather frustrating.  If people want change, third party is the change necessary for this country. 

[bright lights, big city]

well that's what you believe. i just happen to think obama is the right answer. that's the beauty of america.

[goldpony]

its funny, cause cspan was replaying the 92 town hall debate before that last debate and it made me remember why i wanted to vote perot in 92 (if i could have voted). he actually made a lot of sense and had a plan, not unlike ron paul. did i agree with everything he said? no, but at least he made sensible points about policy (many of them applicable to today). i really wish america wasn't stuck in a two party cycle

[shine down unshy]

I would've voted for Ron Paul if he had made it this far.

[Variable]

well that's what you believe. i just happen to think obama is the right answer. that's the beauty of america.

This is very true.  However, the reason why people like myself and these gentlemen get frustrated, is because you think Obama is the best candidate when he has not even addressed 90% of the issues that these 3rd party candidates are trying to bring awareness to.  If Obama would sit there and have a debate on these issues.  Real issues, with real responses.  Then you or who ever thought that he was still the best person.  I would never say a word to you about it.  But the fact is that these issues are not being raised or debated.  They are important issues to a lot of us.  I believe that they would be important issues to a lot more people if they were being talked about.  This is why we might seem a bit fiery at times.

Hmmm.  I should just go out and buy this book.

yes sir, you do

I would've voted for Ron Paul if he had made it this far.

He did endorse someone to vote for in his absence you know.

[defkitty]

Interesting...
BTW Bush and the rest of his party 20 years+ back haven't been "true" core Republicans, but Neocons (whatever that's supposed to mean).

In all reality no candidate is ever perfectly attached to the idealologies of their parties which pretty much discredits the system altogether.  And George Washington said a party based election system would be the death of our nation. 

In reference to the words of Dr. Paul-
This sounds great, but seems to rely heavily upon the good caring natures of doctors, which is not always the case.  I can see how this regulation makes things harder for practices and I'm definitely against regulation period if it's not necessary, but I can't really picture this approach in our "modern" world.  I mean, left alone, would these doctors be free to go crazy with fees, etc.  If someone is seriously ill, paying it would no longer be a choice, but a necessity- and some people probably wouldn't have time to "shop around" the free market of docs after being injured. 

Plus it seems like socialized medicine has been successful in places like London (or so I've heard/ read).

Not that I don't agree with what he says, it actually seems fairly simple on paper- especially compared to how complicated a socialized system would be to regulate.  Just some points to think about.

[Variable]

Well I think his point is that there will more than likely not be just one doctor in town.  They will be competing with each other to provide the best care at the cheapest price.  This is how the "all powerful market" that people are starting to talk so much shit about, works.  But it hasn't been able to properly work because of all the regulation placed on it in the name of special interest.  But this is just for routine medical issues.

As far as people being really sick, needing emergency care.  ERs in America already can't turn anybody away.  They have to treat anyone.  The civilian ER I used to work at got paid by 30% of the patients we saw.  And that was a private hospital.  But this is where insurance for everyone comes in.  If we all start to use insurance for only emergencies ( as Dr. Paul is talking about ) then the price of insurance will be a lot lower.  Affordable for almost anyone and everyone.

But you also have to put this all into perspective with his total plan.  This is only one notch in his "economic freedom" plan.  To try and evaluate it all by itself makes it more subject to scrutiny.  In the nation he is trying to describe.  Our monetary system and policy is much different.  Regulation is much different.  Free trade is much different ect ect.  Though this he believes that all Americans will have more wealth, allowing everyone to be able to afford this cheaper health care.  It just scares the shit out of people because they are so used to having big brother government as a safety net.  Even though its just making everything worse.

He also brings up a very legitimate point about Military Medicine.  I work in Navy Medicine,  and used to work in civilian medicine, so I feel I can speak on this issue.  He is right, the standard is very low in the military where health care is universal, compared to the civilian world where we have a semi free market of health care.  Service members can come in any time, for anything.  This leads to a lot of unnecessary care.  People getting seen by a MD for a headache.  People coming in to see a MD about sleep disorders even though they drink 8 red bulls a day.  If people had to pay for their care, they would use common sense and wouldn't be clogging the system.  But as I was saying, the quality of care is horrible.  The training , the attitudes of the health care workers and providers is horrible ( due to the abuse of the system ) , the facilities themselves are below standards ( because there is no competition, plus we operate on a government regulated budget ), it's a lower standard of care all around.  And as he said, this is all for the war fighters of America.  How do you think you are going to be treated?  And you do pay in the end, through taxes you will pay.  I mean, sure it is true that in the military we all do get taken care of.  It is nice.  But, I would rather the military just provide me with insurance and allow me to go into a free market and pick a doctor that provides the standard of care that I want.  There are a lot of disgruntled service members with military medicine.  It is just so hard to get good care.  Including me, and I fucking work in it.

[alvarezbassist17]

i read all that, and i couldn't agree more.  i just don't know how to feel right now, cuz we are in a crisis right now, and this election presents us an opportunity to fix it, and it's just gonna get worse.  and everybody who is voting for a bipartisan candidate thinks they are making some great, different decision that's going to fix it, and they're just going to make it worse too.

well that's what you believe. i just happen to think obama is the right answer. that's the beauty of america.

i'm not trying to talk shit or anything, but it really seems like you're judging candidates based on feelings, the folly of this (and many previous) elections.  fucking obama and his charisma.

[Variable]

i read all that, and i couldn't agree more.  i just don't know how to feel right now, cuz we are in a crisis right now, and this election presents us an opportunity to fix it, and it's just gonna get worse.  and everybody who is voting for a bipartisan candidate thinks they are making some great, different decision that's going to fix it, and they're just going to make it worse too.

I that we have probably had to opportunity to make a difference in the past too.  This is just the first election where I am aware of a broader spectrum of political issues.  Most of which are not being addressed by anyone but 3rd party candidates.

I feel you though.  About your comment for people voting bipartisan.  It is really frustrating for me.  Because you don't want to sit there and force your beliefs down anybodies throat.  I believe that people are allowed to disagree.  It is inevitable, that's fine.  The frustrating thing is how people flock to these people, like they are some messiah.  But they do it for no apparent logical reason.  I could swallow it a lot easier if I thought their fixation with the candidates was based on well rounded political research.  But that just does not seem to be the case.