Russians started another war. Does anyone care?

[Nailec]

Its not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.

pics or ur lying!

[Nailec]

[wither-I]

If you don't feel pride in where you came from, then i feel sorry for you.

nationality is a random shit that happened to you when you were born, same as having blue eyes, being tall, blonde, black, etc. That's not worth any fucking kind of pride... Pride should be deserved by some action...

nationalism is the death of the individual.
we are all innately communist, -but once someone adopts a "nationalist" stance they beg for tyranny.

in philosophy, one who is proud in this way is considered a (non-life-affirming) individual. one who extinguishes "will-to-power" and the "free-spirit", in trade for false security from heirarchies outside of the herd.

so basically, as i see it, nationalism is "voluntary slavery" to an "ideal" of "pride" and "power-form".

people IMO follow the same horrible guideline when it comes to their "beliefs" allowing the "God concept" to take reign in their lives.
we are individual people with individual dreams and choices to create our lives how we please.
any sense of loyalty to a power (nation/government/religion) which is not deserved is the first step to "slavery" and "death", because it disracts the "natural-born-free-spirit" to a life of order and sameness, and control and oppression, rather than instilling "free thought" and "free creation", (free-of-form).

like i say, "stop pretending, Freedom, -is not having to choose"
i srongly believe this and that is why i do not vote.
some may condemn me, but its a stringent belief.
Jesus believed the same.

[goldpony]

true, where you came from is a random act, but having pride for the accomplishments of your country is nothing to scoff at. people that came before me died to uphold the ideals that gave me what i have and made me who i am today. i have to honor that. while it may seem like a form of mental slavery, i see it as a way to honor those who died to uphold the fredoms i enjoy today

[Nailec]

right you can honor individual deeds but the concept of pride for a whole country just fails because of the dark times of many countries.


@ wither-i: like marx you dont see the dialectics of freedom and equality. this is what i would say to someone who holds the idea for freedom a little bit too high imho.

[Variable]

my sister is a pretty smart chick. and she lives in china right now and loves the people

Hey, ask her not to come to HK, I may end banging her you know....

What's she doing there ?

lol shes a missionary. 

I would pay you if you were able to convince you to have sex with her.  Shes almost 25 and is still a virgin ( yes, I know that she is and im not just some disillusioned brother)  Its not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.  She just believes in waiting for marriage.

So if you sir ( or Josh ) were able to get her to loosen up a but.  It would be amazing.

I'm considering making it a mission to fuck your sisters brains out.

no offense.

none taken

[wither-I]

right you can honor individual deeds but the concept of pride for a whole country just fails because of the dark times of many countries.


@ wither-i: like marx you dont see the dialectics of freedom and equality. this is what i would say to someone who holds the idea for freedom a little bit too high imho.

sorry but this is brutally absurd.

your telling me that there is a bounds to "freedom"!
you gotta be kidding me.

you must not understand the philosophy you are reading.
i think you may be misconstruing the "freedom" im talking about. your talking about "political freedom".
i know thats basically what we are discussing, but the broader issue is about how to deal with these matters at hand of war and such..
if people can learn to deal with their issues (as an individual or an entire country), through terms of "True Freedom" (the kind your fucking born with)
besides this sociopathic ideal of civility under law, and freedom within a bounds, the world may better know PEACE.

but until then we will kill ourselves desperately discussing the lives and fates of others, by logistical procurement of "right", and "freedom", and "equality".

focus on love.
bless.

[Nailec]

we are individual people with individual dreams and choices to create our lives how we please.

is this the concept of freedom ur talking about?

because it disracts the "natural-born-free-spirit" to a life of order and sameness, and control and oppression, rather than instilling "free thought" and "free creation", (free-of-form).

and these are your thoughts on what happened to freedom by creating governments?

[wither-I]

we are individual people with individual dreams and choices to create our lives how we please.

is this the concept of freedom ur talking about?

because it disracts the "natural-born-free-spirit" to a life of order and sameness, and control and oppression, rather than instilling "free thought" and "free creation", (free-of-form).

and these are your thoughts on what happened to freedom by creating governments?

yes.
yes.

theres nothing to it. no logistics behind it, just existence.

[Nailec]

perhaps there is this perfect freedom that doesnt discriminate others persons.

but until we havnt had a REAL communism we will never know if this kind of freedom exists. we just can not proove it. its an assumption, nothing more.

[wither-I]

ahhhhhh true communism, a piece of utopia just for me!

[Variable]

I think the two of you must be high.  I respect your intelligence and education and everything.  But are you joking?

The reason government was created is because its natural.  From day one there were clans, and leaders, and the weak.  Its just the natural order of life.  The genetically strong of certain races and regions protected and provided for the weak of their fellow race and region because they were familiar.  And with the progression of time we realized how stupid it is to fight and feud over culture and race.  But there is still, and always will be the strong and the weak. 

The words " we hold these truths the be self evident, that all men were created equal...." Can only be true because of government.  Jefferson was a student of Locke who recognized the fact that it is a kill or be killed, survival of the fittest world without government.  But once government is created, survival of the fittest no longer applies.  At that point we are equal because the government provides a basis and insurance for the equal treatment of all regardless of race, gender, creed, or social status.  If you take that away, whats stopping someone from just coming up to you and forcefully taking away your freedoms?  Literally enslaving you, just because they can.  There is always someone bigger and bader.  That's why government was formed.  To protect and serve the people.  To guarantee life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Without this, you are no more free than an antelope grazing before a pride of Lions.  Good luck with that.

These forms of government were created as an enhancement from what we had before.  Think about how much of an improvement democracy is over feudalism.  And maybe a new bigger and better system emerges.  This is why Jefferson believed in regular revolutions.  He foresaw that governments would become corrupt and not serve their purpose no matter how perfect they were at the conception.  So yeah, a lot of governments are fucked up today ( the US for example ) but this is where nationalism comes into play.  Pride in your country, therefore the refusal to watch it burn.  Refusing to let the good name and reputation of your country be dragged through the mudd because of imperialism and capitalism.  The refusal to allow special treatment and corruption happen within the government.  It ultimately makes the world a better place.  Instead of people just migrating to whoever is doing it the best at the moment.  If everyone just loves their nation , takes pride in it, and works tirelessly to make it the best place it  can possibly be.  The whole world could become 1st world.  But people don't. People get bitter and allow their nations to become weak.  This causes those with pride to become disgruntled and call for change.  And the easiest way to see change is through violence. 

If everyone was as educated and idealistic as you two seem to be, but took as much pride in their nation as I do.  The world would be an awesome place.

[Nailec]

long text

hey i never said i share withers concept of freedom. havnt read your whole text because have no time for this now. i dont believe in this type of ideal freedom that shall rise when real communism would exist. communists say that egoism and such are created through society and in an emancipated society (that never existet, there has never been a real communism in the world) there wouldnt be hatred amongst men.
i dont believe in that. i think that morality needs laws that cut freedom.

sorry var that i havnt read your text and probablly wrote the same as you. i really have no time now

[Variable]

Im just saying that true communism would never work.  There will always be people who are better than other.  People who are smarter, better looking, bigger, stronger, just better.  It's a fact of life.  True equality across the board is impossible.

Plus when it was being conceived.  They didn't anticipate things like credit and the middle class being able to imitate the rich.  People have the ability to live WAY beyond their means these days.  It has allowed for people to get a taste of being upper class.  Or at least makes the prospect of being upper class more obtainable.  Do you really expect people to just lay down and accept a fraction of the portion they know they could have all for the sake of an ideal?  No, not happening. 

[Variable]

oh and its ok.  I know that no one actually reads the shit that I write

Pretty much I said that being 100% free without a social contract means that you can do whatever you want, whenever you want.  But others may do whatever they want to you, whenever they want.   It's a vicious cycle in which you have no protection.  Survival of the fittest, hope you are the most fit.

And that Nationalism should improve a country.  Its citizens should refuse to let their beloved country turn to shit.  It shouldn't just be that you blindly follow whatever your country is doing.

[wither-I]

i agree with you variable.
i note all the time how we (humans) are "innately communist" through our instinctive communal tendencies.

basically here is how it is.
neandertal man did not survive because "lack of communication". neandertal's vocal chords were placed to far down on their throats to pronounce vowels, and were unable to derive certain annunciations.
when "cromagnon man" (modern homosapiens) came along, they were not fit for "hard" survival like the neandertals but in time learned of the ability to speak language in vowels annunciation and syllable breaks and such...
this enabled modern man to communicate and problem solve with their kind. this communication layed the staple of how community and family are built. better problem solvers became more prodominant figures of the tribe or family, and positions of heirarchy developed with this.

cromagnon man and all other "early homosapien counterparts" also developed the need of community and group coorespondence, because of their "eyes" both being set on the front of their face. unlike most other mammals who have eyes on either side of their head, primates and homosapiens alike developed the need to have a "group eye" or a watch on thier surroundings in order to protect their natural niche.
this made us codependent on one another for survival, rendering our genetic makeup to support this survival.
HOWEVER, in turn with this human beings became more "territorial" and "protective" over the members of their "herd".
WHICH, enabled them to share compassion with and for their neighbor.

LOVE.
and thats what government misses. that tribal connection. in this, we are born of a communist nature.

and in theory with this COMMUNISM = UTOPIA.
but as i see it happening, -when you involve a "communal umbrella" as big as government, you lose the sincerity in your tribe and you begin to WAR with your brother!!

the funny thing is (although i HATE political affiliation!) -i would be considered a "conserative" more than anything else,
because i believe that "family" is the greatest "utility" of man, but in repose, we seem to be extinguishing this value, and it has all become about "the service of you're country" which i do not agree with.

[Crazylegs]

I haven't updated myself very much on this conflict and i can't be bothered to read this whole thread. What are Russia's motives in this?

[whodunit?]

I haven't updated myself very much on this conflict and i can't be bothered to read this whole thread. What are Russia's motives in this?

well, they claim Georgia attacked them.

but it's really because of the oil.

read the news.

[whodunit?]

Poland and US sign missile shield deal

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/15/poland.us.shield/index.html

[Variable]

Its not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.

pics or ur lying!

shes on the left