obama

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Ok kids.  I finally watched the debate and made a play by play analysis of the whole thing.  I know its long.  But I tried to put a lot of though and effort into it.  I tried to be fair and open minded too.  I hope someone enjoys.

[Variable]

ok.  On the first question about the bail out.  I was disappointed with both candidates for being so vague.  Then also going off on issues that were not related to the question. 

Obama blamed Bush for this crisis.  Blamed the "trickle down" policy of Bush for the crisis.  If he honestly believes that, then he has no clue about what caused this problem.  That this has been a work in progress for a very long time.  However McCain did not pick up on this.  Did not call Obama out, did not defend himself, didn't even address the real issue.  What caused this, not what is the temporary fix.  So to me, that says that McCain also has no clue about what actually caused the problem.
Obama then came back talking about his warnings about the abuse of the low interest rates taking advantage of homeowners and how he wrote to the secretary of the treasury.  McCain had no such claim.  McCain SAID a lot of good things. But he did not defend himself well, and had no history of addressing this issue prior to it blowing up.  Although they both really lacked on this issue.  I give it to Obama. 

Obama 1, McCain 0

The second question asked was related to the first question.  How do the two candidates differ fundamentally on how to fix the economy?

Well this portion was very revealing about the candidates.  We hear stuff like this every election.  Cutting taxes ( even though we are in debt and fighting two wars ) and getting spending under control.  So why should we take either of these guys serious?  Listen to what they say and read between the lines. 
McCain started off talking about getting spending under control but did not list even one way that he proposed to do so.  I would not expect spending to get any lower if McCain was elected.  He did however promise to Veto any and "every single spending bill that came across his desk" And that he will make the names of those who proposed the bill known.  He then brought up the nine hundred and thirty two million dollars has aske for in his term in the senate.  He also took responsibility as a republican and said that the Republican Party has not been acting like the republican party.  That Washington changed the party. 

Obama defended himself by saying that he suspended those request until the corruption in Washington could be cleaned up.  Then Obama started to show his lack of knowledge about how the global economy works.  He is focusing on what he perceives to be fair instead of what will work.  He is accusing McCain of doing something wrong when McCain wants to give major corporation tax breaks.  Obama says he wants to build the economy from the bottom up.  Well, I don't believe it works like that.  You don't have to believe in the Trickle down theory that prosperity will trickle down.  But misery and poverty sure will.  If the big business go down, so do the little people ( hints why we have such a huge government buy out on the table right now) Everyone loses if our corporation lose.  Obama is not thinking globally.  He is thinking only about the American economy.  But we are in a global economy.  His thinking is out dated.  Our corporations have to be able to compete with corporations whose countries are taxing them fractions of what we are taxing them.  95% of America can take on that tax bourdon without paying much out of our pocket because there is so many of us.  We might save a couple hundred dollars to maybe a couple thousand a year.  Obama himself even said that the saved money might be able to buy 1 computer or a little extra gas.   But what about the people who will lose jobs when the corporations take on these tax bourdons?
McCain then accused Obama of wanting to spend nearly 800 billion more dollars on top of what we are already spending a year.  (Probably an over exaggeration)  Obama defends himself by making some very misleading comments.  He tries to sell off his health care plan as if it is not going to cost more money than anyone can possibly predict.  He will be making government much larger with that plan.  Spending as much money as is required to treat everyone in America year after year.  That is not cutting spending.  He also said he would go line by line of the budget and cut out earmarks and unnecessary spending.  That is a plain and simple lie.  The National budget is something like 50,000 pages front and back.  No one could sit down and read all of that if they dedicated all of their time for 4 years straight.  Senator Obama,  Saving the middle class a couple hundred of dollars a year will not save the economy.  Spending more money when our country is trillions of dollars in debt will not help the economy.  Strangling our corporations with taxes will not save or economy.  You are showing your idealism instead of wisdom.  McCain wins this one without question.  Obama, you are a democrat.  Democrats classically believe in bigger government and more spending.  Stop trying to pretend that you are something you are not.  Most Democrats don't mind paying a little more into the pot if their money goes to social programs.

Obama 1 - McCain 1

Question three.  Which of your priorities will you have to give up in order to pay for this financial bailout?


Both of the candidates did a horrible Job answering this question.  They stated what they thought was important and what they did not want to give up rather than what they would sacrifice.  Finally McCain said a freeze on all spending except for the defense budget and Veterans benefits.  Obama opposed this saying that a freeze doesn't make any sense because while those things are important, too many non important programs have excess money.  And too many important programs do not have enough money.  Obama then shined through after McCain stated he has a long record of opposing spending.  Obama brought up that McCain supported all of President Bush's increases in spending.  McCain had no answer  for this other than "I'm a maverick and Sarah Palin is a Maverick too" Cheap political games Senator McCain.  I was going to call this round a pathetic tie seeing as how the question really didnt get answered.  But Obama did say that it is hard to say because no one knows how the market will respond.  Then he totally nailed McCain with that last comment, and McCain nailed himself when he assumed we are all too stupid to see through his lack of an answer by calling himself a maverick and bringing Palin into the picture.  That is the first BIG mistake I have noticed so far.

Obama 2 - McCain 1

Question four.  Remembering the lessons learned from Vietnam.  What are the lessons to be learned from the war in Iraq?

This is a pretty easy one to sum up.  McCain started talking about how he was right about certain strategies and tactics.  Did not touch the question about LESSONS learned.  Obama's reply was that the major lesson to learn from  the war in Iraq is that the President needs to be careful and responsible about how he deploys our troops.  They then went on to argue many points about who said what and who supported what that did or did not work.  But McCain never once acknowledged that it was a mistake to go to Iraq, that we are no safer for being there, and that the war has not only not benefited the US at all, but hurt us as well.  It seems as though senator McCain has learned no lesson from the war in Iraq.  Through all the diversion and babbling I was able to summarize this.
McCain says that the lesson to be learned is to send enough troops and have a good strategy from the start
Obaba says that we should be more careful and not rush into wars.

Obama 3 - McCain 1

Question Five.  Do we need more troops in Afghanistan?  How many for how long and when?

This question turned more into a debate about strategy to win the war in Afghanistan besides just adding more troops.  It was a bit of a battle over staying in, or pulling out of Iraq.  It was also a bit of a battle over Pakistan and if we should violate their autonomy by striking on their soil without their consent.  Senator McCain finally outshined Obama here.  He seems to have a much better understanding of counter insurgency operations than Senator Obama.  McCain also repeatedly said that he would let General Petraeus and the other ground commanders take the lead and make the strategy.  Obama seemed to think he was more qualified to run the show than the generals.  They both agree that the tribal areas of Pakistan are a huge threat ( I do too ) But McCain wants to win the people of Pakistan over to get them to take care of their own country.  Obama wants to sit on the border and hunt for bad guys.  Then violate the sovereignty of a nation and attack on their soil without their consent.  As if we Americans would stand for such a thing.
Obama 3 – McCain 2

Question Six.  What is your reading of the current threat of Iran to the US?
Both candidates agreed that Iran as a nuclear power is a threat, and can't be allowed to exist.  This question turned into a debate over whether or not we should sit and have face to face talks with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.  Especially with no pre conditions.  Obama favors opening up the lines of communication and sitting down with the President of Iran to condemn his actions and words face to face and try to come up with a diplomatic solution through a series of meetings.  McCain claims that this would legitimize a man who makes comments about the genocide of Israel.  McCain favors starting a new organization of democracies to meet and implement sanctions on Iran.  He feels that the UN can't act properly because of Russia's influence and vote.  McCain seems to forget history and how isolating dictators has not been successful.  Also that starting up new allied organizations is dangerous, and will eventually either lead to a failure of the new organization or a war with countries who feel threatened by the alliance.  McCain seems to feel he has no chance of being diplomatic with Iran or Russia.  He doesn't feel he can talk either of them into coming to a common ground with the US.  Obama showed a lot of wisdom here.  Although he did lose his cool and became obviously frustrated and angry with McCain for continuously attacking and misinterpreting his statement. 
Obama 4 – McCain 2

Question seven.  How do you see the US relationship with Russia? 

I was disappointed that both candidates seem to agree that we should be enforcing our will on foreign nations and that even though we are in trillions of dollars of debt that it was ok to give billions to Georgia.  Both candidates seem to believe in nation building in the region.  Yet earlier they were both talking about less spending.  Now they are spending more through a forced transfer of wealth to a foreign nation?  When will the US learn that it is not our job to control and police the entire world?  The job and responsibility of the US government is to the people of the US.  Our tax dollars should go to helping us.  I call this one a tie because they were so closely aligned and neither of them shined with anything significant or brilliant to say. 

Obama 4 – McCain 2

Question eight.  What do you think is the likelihood of another 911 - type attack on the US?

McCain really asserted his military experience and broad experience with foreign policy.  He seemed very intelligent and well informed.  He was very comfortable and confident.  I think Obama lacked on this issue.  He did not have the grit and resolve that McCain had.  McCain made many statements about national security through victory in Iraq.  How if we are not successful in Iraq it will empower our enemies ( he is more than likely right ) McCain's whole outlook on the issue seemed to be security though the military.  Although Obama did not shine as much on this issue.  I think if you really listen to his words and try to understand what he was saying.  He actually had the better statement.  He wants to be successful in our endeavors abroad too.  But he feels that going into such huge debt has weakened our ability to protect ourselves ( is definitely true) He also feels that restoring America's image as a nation that represents Freedom , Liberty, The Pursuit of happiness, and a chance to make something of yourself when you have nothing.  That the world will be a safer place for America and Americans.  He feels that a lot of countries see us as an empire trying to conquer their land.  So they are fighting back.  I believe that he touched to bigger issues here.  Of course we have to succeed in the wars we already started.  But we need to prevent going into more debt as much as possible or else we will fail no matter how successful we are in Iraq.  Also that if we don't start to represent Freedom again, we will continue to be hated and attacked.  That is the long term solution.  Obama takes this one
Final score Obama 5. McCain 2 and 1 tie.

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And saying that republicans pay off 3rd party candidates is just beyond stupid.  These people spend so much time and money on campaigns that they know they will never win.  Because they believe in something.  They believe in a better country, a better way to govern.  They are just trying to get the message out.  I was a republican, now I am voting 3rd party.  Ron Paul is a republican who has a huge following and endorsed a 3rd party candidate.  That is taking votes away from the GOP.
Not voting for them because they aren't going to win is missing the point.  If you want to sit there and continue playing this bull shit game then fine.  But dont ger angry when the politicians continue to play their bull shit games and feed you their bull shit lies after you chose to play along.

at this point in time it is a waste of a vote. and will continue to be a waste until the media gives every candidate equal time and attention. i'm there are alot (far to many) people you couldn't tell you a single 3rd party candidate. your average joe watches fox new and cnn and see 90% (if not more) coverae on the main 2. they form there opinions on them forgetting or never knowing the rest. no matter how many people think like you and vote 3rd party hoping to open up some eyes it wont help. unless  in some unbelieble event a 3rd party where to win. but a 3rd party getting a lot of votes and still not coming any where close to winning...the majority wont even notice.

Well how do you ever expect them to get media time and step more into the spot light?  They have to show that more and more people take them serious and support them.  They aren't just going to pop into popularity over night because of some magic.  People have to make the effort.  If you know about them, and you believe in their message, but you still vote for a Democrat or Republican even though you think a 3rd party candidate would be better.  That is disgusting to me.  It is perpetuating the cycle.  Allowing the Democrats and Republicans to continue to nominate these good balls and not really talk about real issues or real change year after year.  It is not a waste of a vote because I am telling these people that I will not play their games anymore.  If more people did it, we might make enough of an impact to actually change the big two parties.  Scare them into getting real again.  Plus voting for who I think is best just seems like the moral thing to do.

[devlin]

  Plus voting for who I think is best just seems like the moral thing to do.

i definitly agree with that. but i am willing to sacrafice my morals to put at least one more vote against McCain. A vote that might actually prevent him from getting into office.

[Variable]

that just doesn't make any sense to me.  Especially when McCain and Obama are so closely aligned on the way they want to govern the country..

[devlin]

i'm not crazy about obama, i like him, but i'm not totally convinced hes the best. but i do not like mccain at all. i see your point, vote for who you think is best, is the way it should be done. but, disgusting as it may be to you,  i'd rather vote in an attempt block McCain. i haven't even made up my mind on who i like the best, it might end up being that i go out genuinely wanting to vote obama.

[devilinside]

WHOOO!!! Trey said Obama won! lol I'm messin with ya.

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I think he did.  McCain had his victories.  But I just though over all Obama did better.  Had better things to say for the most part

[devilinside]

I agree. I'll give credit where credit is due,no matter who it is,but I feel Obama did do better.

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He messed up by getting angry a few times.  really let it show.  If I was judging by pure debating skills my results probably wouldnt have been the same.  But I tried to do the more intelligent thing and understand what they were trying to communicate and judge them on their message instead of their delivery

[devilinside]

I think I heard "Main Street" over 90 billion times.

[Variable]

lol.  Yeah.  I have been watching youtube videos about the bail out and thats all everyone is saying.  I really hate the media sometimes.  I would lose money if this bailout doesnt happen.  But still, im not for it.  I think we will all lose even more money in the long run if it pases.

[White Pwny]

I feel Obama definately took the debate.    I can't wait til Thursday to see Biden wipe the floor with Palin's ass.   It was really nice of her to talk after the Debate.   lolz.    And SHE hypothetically could be the next president?!   Scaryyy.

[bright lights, big city]

I watched Biden on Keith Olbermann after the debate Friday night, and he said "no kid gloves". So I guess he may lay it on her this week.

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I feel Obama definately took the debate.    I can't wait til Thursday to see Biden wipe the floor with Palin's ass.   It was really nice of her to talk after the Debate.   lolz.    And SHE hypothetically could be the next president?!   Scaryyy.

I dont think Obama took him in an all out landslide victory.  McCain definitely held his own.  He actually did a really good job.  On a couple of the questions that I awarded to Obama, McCain actually debated better.  But I gave them to Obama because I am familiar with he issues and think that he was saying the right thing on that particular issue.

The VP debates are always a joke.  This is nothing new.  Last time John Edwards got his ass kicked by Cheny in a way I have never seen before.  It will just be flipped this time.  It doesn't matter how smart or stupid palin is.  If a man with as much experience as Biden cant clean up on a noob like Palin, then he is not worth a dam.

what did you mean though?  that it was nice of her to talk after the debate.  I must have missed that.

[White Pwny]

No, you didn't.   She didn't speak.   Even one of the guys said after hearing from Biden... "I wish we could also hear from Palin"  the other broadcaster said... "Don't hold your breath"   And, she never called in, and had NOTHING to say.  Just kind of silly for her to not say anything to uphold her running mate.   

Yeah, if Biden can't kick her ass.... then he's pathetic.  Tho, I think he will do just fine.


And also, I don't think it was a landslide.  But I definately think Obama came out ahead.

[Variable]

yeah.  The 2nd debate should be interesting.  It is still anyones game to win

[defkitty]

Calm down Variable...
I did say that I thought third parties had some great points-even Libertarians-however you can't tell me that you realistically think one will win in this election.
I hate that this is how things nave become more than anyone- George Washington, one of the founders of this country, even stated that an organized party system would be the end of this nation.
However, with the current issues that our economy, foreign relations, etc. are facing, we need someone who actually has a chance in the next 30-40 days.

I also should say that saying the 3rd parties were "paid off" was just a joke to make the extreme point that the large group of more liberal parties actually have affected the Dems pretty badly in the last two elections.

Btw great overview of the debate.

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I didnt think I was worked up.  Probably just came off wrong.

No I dont think a 3rd party candidate has a chance to win.  But that doesn't make it a waste of my vote.  McCain and Obama essentially have the exact same policies on the Economy , foreign relations ect ect.  They bicker over little itsy bitsy differences.  But fundamentally have the same policy.  So me me it doesn't really matter who is elected.  They both want to continue interventionism, imperialism, the Federal Reserve,regulated "Free trade" instead of true free trade, centralized banking, inflation instead of putting us back on the gold standard, big BIG government, huge federal spending, huge taxes, police states, large executive control over the entire nation instead of states rights, the war on drugs, the war on illiteracy, the war on poverty, the forced transfer of wealth through foreign aid..............Get the point?  they have the same fundamental policies about governing.  But they bicker over tiny things that dont even matter in the long run, should our country be occupying 129 countries instead of 130?  It is ok to break this countries sovereignty, but not this ones.  Should this big tax bourdon ,that will affect the middle class one way or the othe,r start at the top or bottom? They are one in the same. So im not going to waste my time trying to figure out which is the lesser of two evils because that is futile.  I will vote for who represents my political views.  And I will encourage others to do the same.  maybe not this election, but possibly in 20 years or so we might start to make a real difference.  All depends on how successful the republicrats are at making you think you have to play their game.

and thank you about my overview.  I didnt think anyone would actually read it all

[devilinside]

I sure the hell didn't...I wont lie!