obama

[Variable]

well then aren't there people voting for McCain just because he's not Obama?

oh for sure.  But I dont think in the same numbers as the other way around ( thats why every time you hear the democrats talk about McCain they say "4 more years of Bush" at least 6 times) and also, I havent seen any of those people post here.  So I cant call them fools until they do

[Shaye]

Ok...so who watched 60 minutes last night and saw McCain and Obama get seriously questioned?

Discuss...

[Shaye]

 I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office.  You know what I mean?

I know exactly what you mean. The problem is that I WILL NOT vote for McCain, so my choices are limited. I refuse to just not vote at all. And I wont waste a vote on  third party. So what to do? There's only one option left...

[Variable]

Ok...so who watched 60 minutes last night and saw McCain and Obama get seriously questioned?

Discuss...

I didnt see it! lol I dont even own at TV! tell me about it.  ill see what I can find on their web site

[Variable]

 I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office.  You know what I mean?

I know exactly what you mean. The problem is that I WILL NOT vote for McCain, so my choices are limited. I refuse to just not vote at all. And I wont waste a vote on  third party. So what to do? There's only one option left...

well, that is where you and I are going to have to totally disagree.  I cant blame you for not wanting to vote for McCain at all.  I wont even ask why ( although im pretty sure that if I did, I could show you how Obama shares the majority of the qualities and policies that McCain does) Which is why I wont vote for Obama either.  But the spot where we disagree is that a 3rd party is not a waste of a vote.  That is a dirty nasty lie straight from the minds of the  Bureaucrat ass holes who have torn this country apart.  They want you to think that the only options are these like minded and inept individuals chosen, not by the american people, but by the deligates of the parties.  That is in no way a choice.  The real waste of a vote ( in my opinion ) is to give into their game and their lies and continue to perpetuate the cycle.  Im going to vote for who I think will be the best president.  Thats it.  Not for who has the best chance of winning.  For who will be the best.  I think there is a lot of logic in that.  Of course this person will not win.  But if enough people come to their sense and start voting like that, and get out of the lies and games.  In 8, maybe 12 years.  A "3rd party" candidate might no longer be a 3rd party candidate.  They might be a front runner because people showed and interest.  Maybe if a 3rd party gets enough votes.  It will scare the two big parties into a bit of reform.  and the 2012 elections might actually be worth paying attention to.  At the very least, it will send a clear message to these people, that YOU are done letting them play you.  I am no pawn of any political agenda, and I will not vote like I am.

[Variable]

oh I found the videos.  They will take a while to upload.  at least until tomorrw.

[bright lights, big city]

yeah i didnt watch 60 minutes, someone please tell me what they grilled them about

[Variable]

The last time I watched 60 min ( maybe 3 weeks ago ) there was a story about US bombings in Afghanistan.  The whole story was totall horse shit.  I know from direct first hand experience.  I spent a lot of time getting shot at in the very valley they were in.  They were trying to pitch these people as being peaceful , loving, porr victims of US bombings.  Its total horse shit.  These are very bad people.  Even the Afghans ( who were convinced these people were good at first ) were amazed at how evil these people were.  There are two different factions of Taliban in the valley, and one faction of HIG ( a fact they failed to mention in the report) thats a lot of bad guys.  And when they are not shooting at us, they are shooting at each other .  Every fucking night those guys were fighting with each other, its all they wanted to do.  I cant even tell you how many times we literally could have blown up that entire valley because it erupted so bad, but didnt out of good conscious.  These people will shoot at a convoy with their kids standing right next to them, hoping you will shoot back and kill their kid so they can use it against you. 
The report talked about how the bombing killed a bunch of innocent civilians, but no bad guys.  They failed to mention that those bombings took place sometime around june or july of 2007.  Later around august and September of 2007 we were able to push into the valley on foot.  We uncovered a system of tunnels that went from house to house.  So bad guys could run into a house with children, duck out into a tunnel, and let the house get bombed. Then call 60 min and talk about how horrible the US is.  The whole report was wrong, every single thing about it was wrong.  I could go on and on about how even the small fact were wrong.  It is very sick actually.  Very disturbing to think that Americans are made to believe this about their military.

in other words, I dont have much love for 60 min

[Shaye]

 I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office.  You know what I mean?

I know exactly what you mean. The problem is that I WILL NOT vote for McCain, so my choices are limited. I refuse to just not vote at all. And I wont waste a vote on  third party. So what to do? There's only one option left...

well, that is where you and I are going to have to totally disagree.  I cant blame you for not wanting to vote for McCain at all.  I wont even ask why ( although im pretty sure that if I did, I could show you how Obama shares the majority of the qualities and policies that McCain does) Which is why I wont vote for Obama either.  But the spot where we disagree is that a 3rd party is not a waste of a vote.  That is a dirty nasty lie straight from the minds of the  Bureaucrat ass holes who have torn this country apart.  They want you to think that the only options are these like minded and inept individuals chosen, not by the american people, but by the deligates of the parties.  That is in no way a choice.  The real waste of a vote ( in my opinion ) is to give into their game and their lies and continue to perpetuate the cycle.  Im going to vote for who I think will be the best president.  Thats it.  Not for who has the best chance of winning.  For who will be the best.  I think there is a lot of logic in that.  Of course this person will not win.  But if enough people come to their sense and start voting like that, and get out of the lies and games.  In 8, maybe 12 years.  A "3rd party" candidate might no longer be a 3rd party candidate.  They might be a front runner because people showed and interest.  Maybe if a 3rd party gets enough votes.  It will scare the two big parties into a bit of reform.  and the 2012 elections might actually be worth paying attention to.  At the very least, it will send a clear message to these people, that YOU are done letting them play you.  I am no pawn of any political agenda, and I will not vote like I am.

LOLZ!

I feel like I can't ever explain myself properly to you. 

I agree with what you're saying. Third party voting is exactly what the Republicans and Democrats would love to see us ignore. I'm saying it's a waste of a vote just because of that. Because there isn't going to be a sudden awakening for this election. I'd love to vote for another party, especially if there was someone in place who I really thought was on the right track. But it's pretty clear at this point that this race is going to come down to McCain vs. Obama and so I'm at least going to vote for the the one out of those 2 that I'd rather see in office, you know?

I know, that there are even a few policies about Obama that I don't like (i.e. the socialized healthcare plan- although something does need to be done), and I know you certainly could point out a bunch of similarities between the 2 of them.

However, and I'm reluctant to say this because it can easily get misinterpreted, but one of the major differences between McCain and Obama that I find to be very important is their overall demeanor. Their body language, the way they carry themselves, the way they speak. I think you can tell a lot about someone by looking at those things. Those characteristics have a lot to do with the way they deal with problems. Obama takes the win on that one, IMO.

I can say, that if Palin hadn't been selected as VP for McCain I might have been willing to invest more of myself in him up until election time.

What really pissed me off in the 60 minutes interview yesterday was something McCain said in regards to Palin...
He was basically asked (and don't quote me on this) why he chose Palin as his VP. I believe the interviewer said something about how it was obviously a great marketing technique to choose Palin. McCain pretty much said that, NO, he chose her because he thought she was the best decision for VP of the United States...

Really? Really? Out of all the people he could have picked, he thought an unknown, smalltime governor of Alaska who has no insight into National economcs and foreign policy, could be the BEST choice? That's insane.

That right there, is terrible decisions making on his part. If he honestly believes that, he's a fool. And if he was just saying it, to make himself look good then he's also a fool, a liar, and someone who doesn't have much regard for the citizens of this country and their well being.

I definitely recommend watching that 60 minutes special, it was very entertaining.

[Shaye]

Man, I'm writing novels up in here.   

[devilinside]

What really pissed me off in the 60 minutes interview yesterday was something McCain said in regards to Palin...
He was basically asked (and don't quote me on this) why he chose Palin as his VP. I believe the interviewer said something about how it was obviously a great marketing technique to choose Palin. McCain pretty much said that, NO, he chose her because he thought she was the best decision for VP of the United States...

EL OH EL!!!

[bright lights, big city]

I can see how the candidates carry themselves as an important issue to some people, I totally agree with you. Just look at our current president and how he's carried himself in speeches and in his demeanor. Now does that directly correlate with how they make decisions? I believe in an essence, it does somewhat. And McCain just seems like a zombie to me most of the time. I also get the impression that he is just reading cue cards when he's talking (I really can't wait till the upcoming VP and presidential debates). Also, while on the subject, IMO some of the questions to Palin are odd. She seems like SHE is being fed information...I just don't get it.

I think the debates will open people's eyes and give everyone a true impression of them (including Obama and Biden), but personally, I would love to see more actual interviews of the Republican candidates on other networks. Palin's one interview with Charlie Gibson seemed a little soft, even though it was the source of the great "I can see Russia from my state" quote. But I know Obama and Biden have been on Fox News, Obama actually was interviewed by the legendary (*vomit*) Bill O'Reilly. Why do we not see more of these types of interviews from everyone?

[alvarezbassist17]

i agree with pretty much everything that variable has been spittin in this thread. i'm pretty sure that i'm gonna vote for ron paul; i don't know why mccain didn't choose him or fred thompson for vp, incredibly short sighted. i don't think palin is as bad as everyone is saying though.  i think that the campaign season needs to be shortened to around 6 weeks, so we don't have to listen to all this shit slinging and speculatory bullshit.

[devilinside]

Fred Thompson?? Seriously? He's a joke!

[Variable]

Man, I'm writing novels up in here.   

hey, you and me both

[Variable]

 I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office.  You know what I mean?

I know exactly what you mean. The problem is that I WILL NOT vote for McCain, so my choices are limited. I refuse to just not vote at all. And I wont waste a vote on  third party. So what to do? There's only one option left...

well, that is where you and I are going to have to totally disagree.  I cant blame you for not wanting to vote for McCain at all.  I wont even ask why ( although im pretty sure that if I did, I could show you how Obama shares the majority of the qualities and policies that McCain does) Which is why I wont vote for Obama either.  But the spot where we disagree is that a 3rd party is not a waste of a vote.  That is a dirty nasty lie straight from the minds of the  Bureaucrat ass holes who have torn this country apart.  They want you to think that the only options are these like minded and inept individuals chosen, not by the american people, but by the deligates of the parties.  That is in no way a choice.  The real waste of a vote ( in my opinion ) is to give into their game and their lies and continue to perpetuate the cycle.  Im going to vote for who I think will be the best president.  Thats it.  Not for who has the best chance of winning.  For who will be the best.  I think there is a lot of logic in that.  Of course this person will not win.  But if enough people come to their sense and start voting like that, and get out of the lies and games.  In 8, maybe 12 years.  A "3rd party" candidate might no longer be a 3rd party candidate.  They might be a front runner because people showed and interest.  Maybe if a 3rd party gets enough votes.  It will scare the two big parties into a bit of reform.  and the 2012 elections might actually be worth paying attention to.  At the very least, it will send a clear message to these people, that YOU are done letting them play you.  I am no pawn of any political agenda, and I will not vote like I am.

LOLZ!

I feel like I can't ever explain myself properly to you. 

I agree with what you're saying. Third party voting is exactly what the Republicans and Democrats would love to see us ignore. I'm saying it's a waste of a vote just because of that. Because there isn't going to be a sudden awakening for this election. I'd love to vote for another party, especially if there was someone in place who I really thought was on the right track. But it's pretty clear at this point that this race is going to come down to McCain vs. Obama and so I'm at least going to vote for the the one out of those 2 that I'd rather see in office, you know?

I know, that there are even a few policies about Obama that I don't like (i.e. the socialized healthcare plan- although something does need to be done), and I know you certainly could point out a bunch of similarities between the 2 of them.

However, and I'm reluctant to say this because it can easily get misinterpreted, but one of the major differences between McCain and Obama that I find to be very important is their overall demeanor. Their body language, the way they carry themselves, the way they speak. I think you can tell a lot about someone by looking at those things. Those characteristics have a lot to do with the way they deal with problems. Obama takes the win on that one, IMO.

I can say, that if Palin hadn't been selected as VP for McCain I might have been willing to invest more of myself in him up until election time.

What really pissed me off in the 60 minutes interview yesterday was something McCain said in regards to Palin...
He was basically asked (and don't quote me on this) why he chose Palin as his VP. I believe the interviewer said something about how it was obviously a great marketing technique to choose Palin. McCain pretty much said that, NO, he chose her because he thought she was the best decision for VP of the United States...

Really? Really? Out of all the people he could have picked, he thought an unknown, smalltime governor of Alaska who has no insight into National economcs and foreign policy, could be the BEST choice? That's insane.

That right there, is terrible decisions making on his part. If he honestly believes that, he's a fool. And if he was just saying it, to make himself look good then he's also a fool, a liar, and someone who doesn't have much regard for the citizens of this country and their well being.

I definitely recommend watching that 60 minutes special, it was very entertaining.

I hear what you are saying. But you missed my point on the 3rd party candidates just a little bit ( or maybe not ) But what I am trying to say is that if everyone sits around and waits for everyone else to start voting for a 3rd party.  It will never happen.  That is why it hasn't happened yet, and that is why it will never happen.  Unless people take a moral stand and quit worrying about who is going to win, and they just vote for the best candidate.  No matter what, If Obama or McCain or Obama wins, America loses.  Who gives a fuck if you came in 8th or 9th place?  If you aint first, you're last   Voting for a third party and letting the republicrats know that we are done with their game is the only logical choice for me.  If everyone who wanted to do it, but was just waiting until a 3rd party had more support, did it.  You might be surprised at who our next president was.

[kreepercamikaze]

I can see how the candidates carry themselves as an important issue to some people, I totally agree with you. Just look at our current president and how he's carried himself in speeches and in his demeanor. Now does that directly correlate with how they make decisions? I believe in an essence, it does somewhat. And McCain just seems like a zombie to me most of the time. I also get the impression that he is just reading cue cards when he's talking (I really can't wait till the upcoming VP and presidential debates). Also, while on the subject, IMO some of the questions to Palin are odd. She seems like SHE is being fed information...I just don't get it.

I think the debates will open people's eyes and give everyone a true impression of them (including Obama and Biden), but personally, I would love to see more actual interviews of the Republican candidates on other networks. Palin's one interview with Charlie Gibson seemed a little soft, even though it was the source of the great "I can see Russia from my state" quote. But I know Obama and Biden have been on Fox News, Obama actually was interviewed by the legendary (*vomit*) Bill O'Reilly. Why do we not see more of these types of interviews from everyone?

If you're looking for more from Palin during debates. You probably still won't hear much of anything but talking points from her. They've pretty much changed the rules for the VP debates to favor her:

"The Obama and McCain campaigns have agreed to an unusual free-flowing format for the three televised presidential debates, which begin on Friday, but the McCain camp fought for and won a much more structured approach for the questioning at the vice-presidential debate, advisers to both campaigns said Saturday.

At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.


The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which is sponsoring the forums.

Commission members wanted a relaxed format that included time for unpredictable questioning and challenges between the vice-presidential candidates. Last week, it rejected a proposal from advisers to Ms. Palin and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the Republican presidential nominee, for few if any unfettered exchanges. Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html?_r=5&hp=&oref=login&adxnnlx=1221944424-M80ol3HyyXHv4YOA0dtK0w&pagewanted=all

She hasn't been doing too much press because she IS being fed information. She makes no decisions for herself and the McCain campaign are keeping their claws in her pretty deep. I'm sure it has been said here before (I haven't read the entire thread to be honest) but don't expect too much from her. She is a puppet.

[bright lights, big city]

that's gayer than eight guys blowing nine

[Variable]

lol @ "Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format."

This whole thing is such a joke

[tarkil]

This whole thing is such a joke

Yup... It's really getting ridiculous...
And i thought at first Obama was different, and wouldn't play that stupid game...
Well, guess what ?  I was wrong...

Still, I'd pick Obama - Biden any day over McCain and his stupid cunt