obama

[devilinside]

2 things wrong with Ron Paul:

1) He's a Republican

2) He's from TEXASS!

[alvarezbassist17]

I kind of hope Obama does win.  that way when the savior steps into office and nothing really changes at all.  Maybe the American people will start to actually pay attention to the issues and who might actually change them.

word.  it's so sad to me that people consider themselves politically enlightened just because they chose a candidate, and based it on an opinion on a stupid issue that they probably saw on the daily show (not considering the inherent irony of the show) or cnn.  sucks that we'd have to sit through 4 years of economic turmoil, though.   thank fuck i'll be a rich-ass accountant by then.  

aside from all of the issues i disagree with, obama just strikes me like one of those punk kids that became ever so prevalent when NOFX started hating on bush: wanting change, change, change, but are too young to actually get the big picture.  i dunno, i really think we need someone with a phd in economics for president.  but we're doomed to have former lawyers in nearly every political position, who are really only good at arguing and twisting words.

[Variable]

2 things wrong with Ron Paul:

1) He's a Republican

2) He's from TEXASS!

Ron Paul is a true Republican.  Nothing like what Bush and McCain are trying to play off as the GOP today.  You should check out his book. Its pretty short.  You can kill it in a day or two.  But it is a very accurate depiction as to what the Republican party is actually supposed to be about.  You might actually find out that you like republicans more than you think.

I kind of hope Obama does win.  that way when the savior steps into office and nothing really changes at all.  Maybe the American people will start to actually pay attention to the issues and who might actually change them.

word.  it's so sad to me that people consider themselves politically enlightened just because they chose a candidate, and based it on an opinion on a stupid issue that they probably saw on the daily show (not considering the inherent irony of the show) or cnn.  sucks that we'd have to sit through 4 years of economic turmoil, though.   thank fuck i'll be a rich-ass accountant by then.  

aside from all of the issues i disagree with, obama just strikes me like one of those punk kids that became ever so prevalent when NOFX started hating on bush: wanting change, change, change, but are too young to actually get the big picture.  i dunno, i really think we need someone with a phd in economics for president.  but we're doomed to have former lawyers in nearly every political position, who are really only good at arguing and twisting words.

yeah.  It blows my mind how some people can talk so much shit about republicans vs democrats.  But when you start to talk to them about it.  They really don't have any clue as to the real differences in the parties.  They just know stupid mud slinging slogans thrown out by both parties.  They pretty much pick their party based on gossip and vote for all of their elected officials based on nothing.  Its terrifying.  ANd before anyone talks shit to me, yes I have voted for a democrat before.

oh, and I think we are in for way more than 4 years of economic crisis. you are right that we need men with more diverse education in the white house and on capitol hill.  Layers are good.  You need people who understand the law and the constitution to be law makers.  But you need way more diversity than just lawyers.  A PHD in Economics would be great right now.  But he would probably need some help on some other big issues as well.

[bright lights, big city]

yes I have voted for a democrat before.

respeck

[Variable]

Martin Chavez was up for re election as mayor of Albuquerque.  I liked what I saw from him the past few years.  Though he was better than the other guy.  And thought it was in the best interest of my city to vote him back in.  I did not however vote for Bill Richardson ( our governor who got some press time for endorsing obama) that guy is a tool.

[Shaye]

The thing that just kills me...

Is that Sarah Palin has become this overnight sensation. And 90% of the time, I hear people judging her looks. I can't even tell you how many guys I've heard say something along the lines of, "I'd totally bang that chick".

WTF? Is this criteria for picking a leader now? It seems to me that no one stopped to think that if McCain croaks while in office, this woman becomes our president. PRESIDENT. Is everyone ok with that? Would people vote for her to be the actual president if she was running? If yes, well I guess that leaves Obama off the hook on that whole "lack of experience" bullshit people were peddling.

It's terrifying to me, to see the popularity this woman has gained based on her looks, and her pregnant teenage daughter, and the fact that she had a tanning bed installed in her governor's mansion. She's a nobody. Can anyone honestly tell me they've known much of anything about her prior to her being selected for VP?

I don't know what to make of this.

Politicians are politicians. They're all basically the same. They cater to big money machines like corporations, and special interest groups. And you can't even be mad at them for it. The American Public allows this happen everyday. These people are supposed to be representing us, NOT the other way around.

Obama might be spouting off about "change" and though no one is clear about what that means yet, I'm willing to take my chances.

McCain, and this is just my opinion, just leaves me with a feeling that NOTHING (that matters) will change at all and that's just unacceptable. Trey is right. We're in for more than we bargained for. A turnaround is going to take time. Things will get worse before they get better anyway. And maybe it's a good thing, it may just force the citizens of this country to take back the power. To make some decisions about the way our future turns out instead of letting it fall into the hands of politicians.

[bright lights, big city]

I know she was mayor of a town of 6,000 for a few years. She can see Russia from her state. Oh, and once she saw a blimp.

[devilinside]

The thing that just kills me...

Is that Sarah Palin has become this overnight sensation. And 90% of the time, I hear people judging her looks. I can't even tell you how many guys I've heard say something along the lines of, "I'd totally bang that chick".

WTF? Is this criteria for picking a leader now? It seems to me that no one stopped to think that if McCain croaks while in office, this woman becomes our president. PRESIDENT. Is everyone ok with that? Would people vote for her to be the actual president if she was running? If yes, well I guess that leaves Obama off the hook on that whole "lack of experience" bullshit people were peddling.

It's terrifying to me, to see the popularity this woman has gained based on her looks, and her pregnant teenage daughter, and the fact that she had a tanning bed installed in her governor's mansion. She's a nobody. Can anyone honestly tell me they've known much of anything about her prior to her being selected for VP?

I don't know what to make of this.

Politicians are politicians. They're all basically the same. They cater to big money machines like corporations, and special interest groups. And you can't even be mad at them for it. The American Public allows this happen everyday. These people are supposed to be representing us, NOT the other way around.

Obama might be spouting off about "change" and though no one is clear about what that means yet, I'm willing to take my chances.

McCain, and this is just my opinion, just leaves me with a feeling that NOTHING (that matters) will change at all and that's just unacceptable. Trey is right. We're in for more than we bargained for. A turnaround is going to take time. Things will get worse before they get better anyway. And maybe it's a good thing, it may just force the citizens of this country to take back the power. To make some decisions about the way our future turns out instead of letting it fall into the hands of politicians.

YES!! Someone that feels the same way! WOOT! I've argued this over and over in this thread....

[Corleone]

palin...


ass we can believe in

[Variable]

The thing that just kills me...

Is that Sarah Palin has become this overnight sensation. And 90% of the time, I hear people judging her looks. I can't even tell you how many guys I've heard say something along the lines of, "I'd totally bang that chick".

WTF? Is this criteria for picking a leader now? It seems to me that no one stopped to think that if McCain croaks while in office, this woman becomes our president. PRESIDENT. Is everyone ok with that? Would people vote for her to be the actual president if she was running? If yes, well I guess that leaves Obama off the hook on that whole "lack of experience" bullshit people were peddling.

It's terrifying to me, to see the popularity this woman has gained based on her looks, and her pregnant teenage daughter, and the fact that she had a tanning bed installed in her governor's mansion. She's a nobody. Can anyone honestly tell me they've known much of anything about her prior to her being selected for VP?

I don't know what to make of this.

Politicians are politicians. They're all basically the same. They cater to big money machines like corporations, and special interest groups. And you can't even be mad at them for it. The American Public allows this happen everyday. These people are supposed to be representing us, NOT the other way around.

Obama might be spouting off about "change" and though no one is clear about what that means yet, I'm willing to take my chances.

McCain, and this is just my opinion, just leaves me with a feeling that NOTHING (that matters) will change at all and that's just unacceptable. Trey is right. We're in for more than we bargained for. A turnaround is going to take time. Things will get worse before they get better anyway. And maybe it's a good thing, it may just force the citizens of this country to take back the power. To make some decisions about the way our future turns out instead of letting it fall into the hands of politicians.

Very good post Shaye.  My defense of Palin in this thread can probably easily be misinterpreted.  I dont care for her at all.  My defense of her is simply to mirror her to Obama in that neither of them are ready, or should be in this election. 

The fact that there is so much at stake in this election, yet we polarize on these nugatory and hebetudinous issues only proves that Americans are either idiots, dont care at all about the future of their country (making them selfish idiots) or are so used to being lied to that they dont even recognize lies anymore, and need to be exposed to some truth so that they can get passionate and care again.

I agree with the rest of your post and thought it was very well put, not need to elaborate on my part.  Except the part about Obama.  He claims change, but is offering none.  I dont think it is wise to vote for him based on those lies.  Obviously either Obama or McCain will be the next president.  But that is due to the massive amount of people who dont know any better than to vote for one of them.  I see it as the responsibility of those of us who do know to vote for a candidate who is willing to address these issues.  I dont feel that voting for the best candidate is a waste of my vote.  I feel that voting for the lesser of two evils is a waste of my vote.  I cant even figure out who is the lesser anyways.  They are almost identical.  Obama is just more auspicious.  But if a large % of the vote went to 3rd party candidates.  Maybe that would wake Washington up a little bit.  Make them try to address some of those issues as they realize America is waking up and they will eventually need our votes.  It might also prompt the people who have never really looked outside of the Democrats or Republicans to wonder why so many people support candidates who have no chance of winning, and maybe do some research.

[Shaye]

I agree with the rest of your post and thought it was very well put, not need to elaborate on my part.  Except the part about Obama.  He claims change, but is offering none. 

I see what you mean, but this is my take on the situation at hand.
I already don't like most things about McCain/Palin so that's why I said I'd rather take my chances with Obama.

I think a more clearer definition of the "change" Obama plans to make, will come to light during the debates, or at least I hope so. I think he's been sort of vague about a lot of things, and I don't like that necessarily but feel like maybe there's a reason behind it. Maybe he just wants to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the political drama as much as possible, and then really let more detailed ideas and opinions about things come out at the debates. I mean, look how far he has gotten by just saying "change" without implying what that change will be.

Maybe this isn't the case, but I think it's a possibility.

Someone in his position is not on solid ground right now. He is one step away from being the first black president of the US, and coming into office with A LOT of issues to attend to, if he is elected. I feel like everyone, probably even some of his supporters are just waiting for him to make a mistake, do something wrong, say something wrong etc. With all that's at stake here, he has to tread lightly but keep enough of a balance where people still remember who he is and have an idea of what he stands for.

Remember what happened to Howard Dean? The guy was doing pretty well, at least he was on the rise. Next thing you know, all he had to do was swing his fist through the air, and scream "YEEEAAAAAAHHH", and he was torn to shreds. Gone. Just a funny video on Youtube now. A joke.

So that's why I think maybe Obama hasn't gotten too specific on some things. He doesn't want to take the chance of ruining what he's achieved so far over something silly. Especially being that he's made it as far as he has by being a little more vague. I think the debates will bring more answers.

[bright lights, big city]

I am crazy for Obama, obviously, but part of me is starting to worry about his timing. I remember Variable mentioning awhile back that he should have perhaps waited till 2012.
This is all stemming from a show I just watched on History Channel about FDR, but when he came into office, shit was bad (Great Depression). So he introduced the New Deal which in reality did not do anything to change the depression; it just gave the illusion that he was doing something. So what are the odds Obama, or McCain for that matter if he gets elected, do begin to change anything like they say? Will there be new programs that produce jobs like the New Deal? But either way, will they be effective 4 years from now, come re-election time?
Or hell, maybe we can have more war to boost the economy like WWII.

Again, I dont know...I'm just speculating here off the top of my head

[devilinside]

I'd say NEITHER of them can truly make a change...no matter what shit they say. I honestly think they're saying what we want to hear,but in the end,nothing will change!


Obama's leading in some key states right now though. Cept Ohio I think it was...in which neither of them were accounted for.

[bright lights, big city]

Ohio = the armpit of America

[devilinside]

But isn't that a key state?

[bright lights, big city]

yeah it is politically, but otherwise...yuck

[Variable]

I agree with the rest of your post and thought it was very well put, not need to elaborate on my part.  Except the part about Obama.  He claims change, but is offering none. 

I see what you mean, but this is my take on the situation at hand.
I already don't like most things about McCain/Palin so that's why I said I'd rather take my chances with Obama.

I think a more clearer definition of the "change" Obama plans to make, will come to light during the debates, or at least I hope so. I think he's been sort of vague about a lot of things, and I don't like that necessarily but feel like maybe there's a reason behind it. Maybe he just wants to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the political drama as much as possible, and then really let more detailed ideas and opinions about things come out at the debates. I mean, look how far he has gotten by just saying "change" without implying what that change will be.

Maybe this isn't the case, but I think it's a possibility.

Someone in his position is not on solid ground right now. He is one step away from being the first black president of the US, and coming into office with A LOT of issues to attend to, if he is elected. I feel like everyone, probably even some of his supporters are just waiting for him to make a mistake, do something wrong, say something wrong etc. With all that's at stake here, he has to tread lightly but keep enough of a balance where people still remember who he is and have an idea of what he stands for.

Remember what happened to Howard Dean? The guy was doing pretty well, at least he was on the rise. Next thing you know, all he had to do was swing his fist through the air, and scream "YEEEAAAAAAHHH", and he was torn to shreds. Gone. Just a funny video on Youtube now. A joke.

So that's why I think maybe Obama hasn't gotten too specific on some things. He doesn't want to take the chance of ruining what he's achieved so far over something silly. Especially being that he's made it as far as he has by being a little more vague. I think the debates will bring more answers.

shaye, you're great to talk to about these kinds of things.  But I think you are being very , very optimistic and trusting towards Obama.  Probably based on desperation to actually have a politician who gives a fuck for once( just a guess?)

You're right.  There really isn't much to like about the McCain / Palin ticket anymore.  Unless you are super caught up in the minor issues and dont understand that the pilgrims didn't write the constitution.  But I dont see that as a reason to just give my vote to Obama even if he doesn't deserve it.

You bring up a good point about him just trying to stay out of the bull shit until he has to in the debates.  I have thought about that too.  But that doesn't mean that he cant release documents about future policies if he is elected.  He even constantly talks about what he feels with be his big two accomplishments in his administration ( Iraq-Afghanistan and universal health care ) His policies on both are not only laughable, but soberingly scary.  He not only NEVER wants to completely pull out of Iraq.  He wants to start more fighting within the extremely hostile tribal areas in Pakistan. In my pretty educated ( on this subject ) opinion, that is going to put us so far into the hole in the middle east, that we might not be able to pull out at all within our life times.  He also wants to make government even bigger, and give beaurocrats control over personal health care.....what?  How is that securing my liberty?  How is that change?  More government control was one of the biggest accomplishments of the Bush administration ( the patriot act ) How is giving the government more control, change?

My thing is.  That there're are politicians out there who have laid out clean and precise policies and plans.  I think it is pretty obvious that I have a love affair with Ron Paul.  But compare him to Obama.  Dr. Paul has literally laid out a plan for every aspect that he would be in charge of if he was president.  Detailed and specific plans.  Yet he still has a huge base of popularity.  I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office.  You know what I mean?

I honestly dont think Obama has a clue about what real change is.  I think that someone on his campaign just saw that people are very unhappy with the nation right now, and figured no one could argue with wanting change, so they ran with it.  The beginning of his life might have been pretty common, and not of the usual pedigree of most politicians.  But he did his real growing up IN the system.  Colombia?  Harvard law? yeah, you better believe he rubbed shoulders with, and was influenced by all the usual personalities we find in both of our parties.  He is trying to say that he is different because of his beginnings, but he chose the path most traveled a long time ago.  I have a feeling he will continue to be very vague in the debates.  Because either way, people are going to vote for him just because he isnt McCain.  No matter how foolish that is.

[Variable]

I am crazy for Obama, obviously, but part of me is starting to worry about his timing. I remember Variable mentioning awhile back that he should have perhaps waited till 2012.
This is all stemming from a show I just watched on History Channel about FDR, but when he came into office, shit was bad (Great Depression). So he introduced the New Deal which in reality did not do anything to change the depression; it just gave the illusion that he was doing something. So what are the odds Obama, or McCain for that matter if he gets elected, do begin to change anything like they say? Will there be new programs that produce jobs like the New Deal? But either way, will they be effective 4 years from now, come re-election time?
Or hell, maybe we can have more war to boost the economy like WWII.

Again, I dont know...I'm just speculating here off the top of my head

I think the most we can hope for from anyone elected right now would be to put us on the right path.  Neither of them have the balls to REALLY shake things up and try to radically change Washington.  But even the more radical 3rd parties could not competely impliment their plans in 4 or maybe even 8 years.  We are simply too fucked up. 

My question though, would be.  What exatly are you hoping - expecting Obama to change? 

and he definatly should have waited.  America deserves their first black president to be someone who is ready.  Not someone who will be a political flop.  Obama doesnt have enough of his own clout right now.  He is just a puppet of all the old war horses in the democratic party.  Already you can see examples of Biden cutting him off and pretty much telling him to STFU noob.  And he is too scared of loosing his historical election, and place in history, to stand up to them.  He will be yet another figure head ( like Bush ) not a true leder of the country.  Once again our leadership will be pimped out to the highest bidder. All of which might have been able to be avoided had he just waited to develop more.

[bright lights, big city]

well then aren't there people voting for McCain just because he's not Obama?

[bright lights, big city]

I am crazy for Obama, obviously, but part of me is starting to worry about his timing. I remember Variable mentioning awhile back that he should have perhaps waited till 2012.
This is all stemming from a show I just watched on History Channel about FDR, but when he came into office, shit was bad (Great Depression). So he introduced the New Deal which in reality did not do anything to change the depression; it just gave the illusion that he was doing something. So what are the odds Obama, or McCain for that matter if he gets elected, do begin to change anything like they say? Will there be new programs that produce jobs like the New Deal? But either way, will they be effective 4 years from now, come re-election time?
Or hell, maybe we can have more war to boost the economy like WWII.

Again, I dont know...I'm just speculating here off the top of my head

I think the most we can hope for from anyone elected right now would be to put us on the right path.  Neither of them have the balls to REALLY shake things up and try to radically change Washington.  But even the more radical 3rd parties could not competely impliment their plans in 4 or maybe even 8 years.  We are simply too fucked up. 

My question though, would be.  What exatly are you hoping - expecting Obama to change? 

and he definatly should have waited.  America deserves their first black president to be someone who is ready.  Not someone who will be a political flop.  Obama doesnt have enough of his own clout right now.  He is just a puppet of all the old war horses in the democratic party.  Already you can see examples of Biden cutting him off and pretty much telling him to STFU noob.  And he is too scared of loosing his historical election, and place in history, to stand up to them.  He will be yet another figure head ( like Bush ) not a true leder of the country.  Once again our leadership will be pimped out to the highest bidder. All of which might have been able to be avoided had he just waited to develop more.

I see where you're coming from with that, I just hope things will run better come 2009. But as for "change", I don't know anymore, right now I just want shit to get better here. Right now I think we need to lower unemployment and get off oil (or at least get the companies to friggin stop price gouging)