obama

[goldpony]

the counterpoint is that the fetus has no control. the real issue with abortion is when life starts, i think it starts at conception. I think abortion should be left for the states to decide and should be legal in some form or another (imagines coathanger *shiver*) however, as much as a woman has a right to choose, she also had the right to choose contrception (in most cases) and didn't. i think the real issue is getting people to use contrception

[devilinside]

Sad thing is that contraceptives aren't alway's affective. Granted it helps decrease the chances,but it's still there. Pills,Shots,Condoms,Spermicides...NOTHING is 100% affective. (except abstinence)  Ok so say this...suppose the woman is on a method of birth control,her and the partner are using a condom,and it breaks. She becomes pregnant. She's taken the best steps she can to prevent pregnancy. Don't blame it on "she also had the right to choose contrception (in most cases) and didn't", That's bullshit. It's a 50/50 situation! Women just get stuck with the ugly part of having to choose. Not all men step up to the fatherhood plate,so the woman has to decide what is in her best interest,some women are not capable of raising a child. Most women going for abortions think "out of sight out of mind".

I think it's nobody business to decide what a woman decides to do as far as abortion. If you start making it illegal,you're gonna have a bunch of hack jobs doing home abortions and spreading diseases.

[devilinside]

And i'm sure it would drastically cut back on welfare costs.

[goldpony]

hey, i wasn't trying to say abortiion should be illegal. i was pointing out that the real issue is that people often don't think ahead when in the throws of passion (i know, i know brains in your pants). while contrce[ptives don't always work, i wonder about if women who get abortions think to themselves "if i had used a condom i wouldn't be here".  just saying. we spend a lot of time arguing against abortion and contraceptives for kids and teenage pregnancy, then when the arguements get turned on their ear (cough bristol palin cough) it about choosing life. dont you think it would be better to try to prevent these situations before they happen

[Variable]

I think abortion should be left for the states to decide

you and I think a lot alike on a lot of issues.  It should at least be at the state level.

And i'm sure it would drastically cut back on welfare costs.

cutting welfare would also cut welfare costs

Obviously that "thing" is a baby, a human life.  I have tripped up a lot of my female nurse co workers who are pro choice with this.  For example, when they get all pissed off because some woman is smoking when they are pregnant.  Its pretty easy to be like " why does it matter?" and they are like " because they are fucking up their baby dumbass!" and im like " I thought you told me it wasn't a baby? I guess its only not a baby when you want to kill it?"  I must be pretty annoying to work with.

I just think this goes to show how cold and cruel humans.  I dont really see the point in having a debate about life with a group of people who are ok with sucking out the brains of babies.  They are going to do it.

And Kelly.  At one time people did believe in something called abstinence.  You know very well I am not a fan of this.  Im just saying.  People used to do it, but then we all started getting promiscuous.  Then started whinnying  about the consequences.  Yes it suck that biology determined females would carry babies ( for you anways) But that was a risk you accepted when you voluntarily ( oh god, now I have to hear the rape defense again) had sex.  Also, its the mans baby too.  Men have no say in the matter.  If a guy wants the child and the female does not.  The female has a right to kill his baby.  That is fucked up.  Seriously if you think about it, its fucked up.  Also if a guy does not want it, the female can have it, and take him to court and try to get child support.  Also fucked up.  You being such and advocate for the civil rights movement probably have a problem with that right?

[goldpony]

At one time people did believe in something called abstinence.  You know very well I am not a fan of this.  Im just saying.  People used to do it, but then we all started getting promiscuous.  Then started whinnying  about the consequences. 

this is where youre wrong (gasp). people have been promiscuous since time began, its just if they fucked up, the mother was shipped off to a convent or sent to live with relatives so as not to disgrace the family. i think abstinence education isn't the answer. i think it is up to parents (double gasp) to properly educate their children on the birds and the bees and let them know that if you do x, y is likely to happen. i do not look forward to this talk btw

[Variable]

yeah yeah Im not saying like 1960s America.  Obviously people throughout history have been having sex.  What im saying is that people accepted that if you were going to do that, and you got pregnant, their were consequences.  A lot more pressure were put on men to step the fuck up too ( at least I would like to think so )  Their have been societies and communities with true moral fiber before.  We often just choose to focus on the 10% of their communities who were hypocrites rather than the vast majority who were not.

anyways.  you are right.  Good parenting is a big part of it.  And oh god, im not even a parent and I cant even imagine talking to my daughter about such things.  Its the only intelligent thing to do.  Shes going to have sex, I understand this.  so why act like she wont.  I need to somehow communicate to her that its ok to enjoy her body, without being a total whore , getting an STD , or getting pregnant before she wants to.  Fuck.  I think its a little easier with a boy.  Because its not like im ever going to think the little shit head is innocent anyways ( yes I will be a truly great father ) plus I can slap him in to head until he swears to always use condoms and make pulling out muscle memory.

[lostpilot]

even though I am not a citizen of US, I would vote for Obama.
just my opinion

[goldpony]

plus I can slap him in to head until he swears to always use condoms and make pulling out muscle memory.

lol

[Variable]

even though I am not a citizen of US, I would vote for Obama.
just my opinion

do you have any political reason for this?  Or do you just like his face and think he makes pretty speeches?

[lostpilot]

do you have any political reason for this?  Or do you just like his face and think he makes pretty speeches?

maybe this is cause I really dislike McCain.
it's just that, well, in Lithuania Obama is presented in somewhat nicer way to me.
me and my friends sometimes discuss about McCain vs Obama and we all agree, that McCain is just another Bush.. and electing Obama would be, well, better.

I always disliked politics therefore I will probably be one of the millions of masses, so maybe my decision lacks reasoning. and no, I will not share the profound reasons, I'm just too bored at the moment

[devilinside]

Obviously that "thing" is a baby, a human life.  I have tripped up a lot of my female nurse co workers who are pro choice with this.  For example, when they get all pissed off because some woman is smoking when they are pregnant.  Its pretty easy to be like " why does it matter?" and they are like " because they are fucking up their baby dumbass!" and im like " I thought you told me it wasn't a baby? I guess its only not a baby when you want to kill it?"  I must be pretty annoying to work with.

I just think this goes to show how cold and cruel humans.  I dont really see the point in having a debate about life with a group of people who are ok with sucking out the brains of babies.  They are going to do it.

And Kelly.  At one time people did believe in something called abstinence.  You know very well I am not a fan of this.  Im just saying.  People used to do it, but then we all started getting promiscuous.  Then started whinnying  about the consequences.  Yes it suck that biology determined females would carry babies ( for you anways) But that was a risk you accepted when you voluntarily ( oh god, now I have to hear the rape defense again) had sex.  Also, its the mans baby too.  Men have no say in the matter.  If a guy wants the child and the female does not.  The female has a right to kill his baby.  That is fucked up.  Seriously if you think about it, its fucked up.  Also if a guy does not want it, the female can have it, and take him to court and try to get child support.  Also fucked up.  You being such and advocate for the civil rights movement probably have a problem with that right?

Again..all going back to it's the womans body,so she does as she pleases with it. If it's not a mutual decision to make a baby,then it's her choice as far as the fate of the fetus goes. And as far as the smoking goes,I've seen many women smoke during pregnancy and have  healthy children. I've seen healthy active women have sickly children and children with birth defects.  It's all luck of the draw.

And maybe you wouldn't have to hear the "rape" story if some men weren't such fucking creeps and could keep their little pricks in their pants. Jesus...how often do you hear of women raping men? Seriously?!?  Humans are cruel and cold,but that's just the way it goes. It happens with all species...man and animal.

We can argue this till we're blue in the face,but i will always be pro choice. I

[devilinside]

And what teh FCUK!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU&feature=related

(he's got plenty more videos about Obama)

[Runs With The Spirit]

It is always better to have A Democrat than a Republican, They just do a Little less evil!, but to tell you the truth, I won't even concern myself with Politricks until They start talkin' about REVOLUTION and eliminating the Republicans. We can do no more with that  injustice on this side of the earth! no more polluting my earth, using my lords name in vain, lieing to the youth! no more!

[Variable]

Obviously that "thing" is a baby, a human life.  I have tripped up a lot of my female nurse co workers who are pro choice with this.  For example, when they get all pissed off because some woman is smoking when they are pregnant.  Its pretty easy to be like " why does it matter?" and they are like " because they are fucking up their baby dumbass!" and im like " I thought you told me it wasn't a baby? I guess its only not a baby when you want to kill it?"  I must be pretty annoying to work with.

I just think this goes to show how cold and cruel humans.  I dont really see the point in having a debate about life with a group of people who are ok with sucking out the brains of babies.  They are going to do it.

And Kelly.  At one time people did believe in something called abstinence.  You know very well I am not a fan of this.  Im just saying.  People used to do it, but then we all started getting promiscuous.  Then started whinnying  about the consequences.  Yes it suck that biology determined females would carry babies ( for you anways) But that was a risk you accepted when you voluntarily ( oh god, now I have to hear the rape defense again) had sex.  Also, its the mans baby too.  Men have no say in the matter.  If a guy wants the child and the female does not.  The female has a right to kill his baby.  That is fucked up.  Seriously if you think about it, its fucked up.  Also if a guy does not want it, the female can have it, and take him to court and try to get child support.  Also fucked up.  You being such and advocate for the civil rights movement probably have a problem with that right?

Again..all going back to it's the womans body,so she does as she pleases with it. If it's not a mutual decision to make a baby,then it's her choice as far as the fate of the fetus goes. And as far as the smoking goes,I've seen many women smoke during pregnancy and have  healthy children. I've seen healthy active women have sickly children and children with birth defects.  It's all luck of the draw.

And maybe you wouldn't have to hear the "rape" story if some men weren't such fucking creeps and could keep their little pricks in their pants. Jesus...how often do you hear of women raping men? Seriously?!?  Humans are cruel and cold,but that's just the way it goes. It happens with all species...man and animal.

We can argue this till we're blue in the face,but i will always be pro choice. I

you missed the point on my smoking comment and the rape comment. 

The smoking comment.  Because it is a fact that you can jack up your kid.  It wasn't just smoking.  It was alcohol and drugs and all kinds of shit right.  The nurses would just get mad when they were doing something that could potentially hurt their babies.  I was not trying to start a discussion on wether or not smoking is harmful to a fetus.  I was bringing up the point that these women were pro choice.  Yet got very mad at the mothers for having disregard for their "unborn babies" can you not see the hypocrisy in that?

The rape was meant that some people think that abortions should be legalized just because sometimes girls get raped and dont want the kind.  Of course this is understandable.  But I would be willing to guess that abortions due to rape victims are probably about 1% of the abortions performed every year in the US.  I dont really see that 1% as good enough of a reason to compromise the moral stance of killing babies.

and just because a baby was an accident.  doesn't mean that a man cant feel like a father towards it.  It is his child too.  Are you telling me that all of your children were planned?  I mean, shit happens.  that doesn't mean that a woman has the right to take away a mans child.  It sucks, its not fair that women have to carry the child, but life isnt fair.  And I think that murdering a mans child is far worse that having to go through 9 months of a pregnancy.  I mean honestly, put it on a scale, which is more fucked up?  If you dont want to deal with issues like this, dont have sex.

[Variable]

do you have any political reason for this?  Or do you just like his face and think he makes pretty speeches?

maybe this is cause I really dislike McCain.
it's just that, well, in Lithuania Obama is presented in somewhat nicer way to me.
me and my friends sometimes discuss about McCain vs Obama and we all agree, that McCain is just another Bush.. and electing Obama would be, well, better.

I always disliked politics therefore I will probably be one of the millions of masses, so maybe my decision lacks reasoning. and no, I will not share the profound reasons, I'm just too bored at the moment

yeah but im just asking.  Is their any reason to not like McCain?  Like an actual political reason?  Or is it all based on perceptions from vast public opinions and looks and oratory ability?  I mean , thinking a guy is nicer than another really isn't a good reason to elect them to the most powerful position in the world.

[devilinside]

you missed the point on my smoking comment and the rape comment. 

The smoking comment.  Because it is a fact that you can jack up your kid.  It wasn't just smoking.  It was alcohol and drugs and all kinds of shit right.  The nurses would just get mad when they were doing something that could potentially hurt their babies.  I was not trying to start a discussion on wether or not smoking is harmful to a fetus.  I was bringing up the point that these women were pro choice.  Yet got very mad at the mothers for having disregard for their "unborn babies" can you not see the hypocrisy in that?

The rape was meant that some people think that abortions should be legalized just because sometimes girls get raped and dont want the kind.  Of course this is understandable.  But I would be willing to guess that abortions due to rape victims are probably about 1% of the abortions performed every year in the US.  I dont really see that 1% as good enough of a reason to compromise the moral stance of killing babies.

and just because a baby was an accident.  doesn't mean that a man cant feel like a father towards it.  It is his child too.  Are you telling me that all of your children were planned?  I mean, shit happens.  that doesn't mean that a woman has the right to take away a mans child.  It sucks, its not fair that women have to carry the child, but life isnt fair.  And I think that murdering a mans child is far worse that having to go through 9 months of a pregnancy.  I mean honestly, put it on a scale, which is more fucked up?  If you dont want to deal with issues like this, dont have sex.

Ok,as far as the drug/alcohol/smoking goes....I get what you're saying,and i understand to a point. But,I also think this woman chose to have this kid,she needs to take care of it and herself. She's not "killing" the kid by smoking. The child has more of a chance of dying from Group B Strep than side affects of smoking.  If you DONT want to have the baby,then do what you need to do,but if you choose to keep it and love it,then,IMO, you need to do whatever it takes to make it healthy.

And both of my kids were planned. 

But I do agree, people should be more responsible. Abortion isn't something to be taken lightly. If you're not responsible,dont have sex.

[Variable]

dude, I dont even know why we started talking about abortion.  I really dont even care.  It has no affect on who I vote for.  And I dont have any ambition to change anyones mind about it. 

My last word will just be that if people insist on abortion being a government issue.  Laws regarding abortion should be issued at the state level.  Not the federal government.

[wither-I]

I just dont think the Government should have enough power to take people freedom from you.  Your control over your body is your freedom.  Its that simple. 

one more word would only confuse

thank you

end

[Variable]

lol what? I just noticed my obvious grammar error in there.  Is that what you are talking about?