obama

[alvarezbassist17]

yeah, intellectualism is totally for pussies

[Variable]

I bet none of you vote


edit: maybe variable

aw thanks

all you have to do is watch the episode of south park. when they are voting for a new school mascot

and the 2 options are a giant douche. and a turd sandwich


thats basically how i feel about our elections

I actually disagree.  that was true for the past two elections.  But I am actually excited about this election.  The quality of candidates is way better.  I believe these to be genuine men and decent choices for the candidacy.  But I guess only time will tell how ignorant I am being.

oh, and yeah hillary is WAY more qualified to be President than Obama.  I actually feel bad for her.  She has dedicated every year since high school to politics and public service.  She was also the first ( and I believe only ) first lady to stay employed after her husband was elected.  And even though I pretty much dont see eye to eye with her on anything.  I respect the fact that she has been so determined to do what she sees best for the country.  Then she gets beat out of an election by some noob that just happens to have really good speaking skills, even though she won the popular vote.  What a bitch move by the democrats.  They chose who they though had the best chance to beat Mccain instead of who is best for the job.

[Variable]

i think the death sentence thing makes sense for repeat offenders, that's the way it is in a few states.  but i'm also all about putting the child rapers in high security prison with the rawest nigs that'll make them feel like children being raped.  that option is less cost-effective though.

in regards to obama, i REALLY REALLY REALLY don't think that putting a democrat in office is going to benefit the country at all.  Our economy is going down the shitter as it is, and all he's gonna do is increase the size of the government and take even more money out of the private sector, the thing that actually has its existence riding on its ability to do things efficiently, something the government really doesn't have.  then the value of the dollar goes down further, and the country is even more in debt.  not to mention all the environmental bullshit that he's clearly going to support that's going to inhibit the work of the private sector even more, causing even higher energy prices, because the democrats really just can't wait until we have a viable alternative source of energy that we won't need to subsidize entirely for 20 years to completely forgo trying to make gas cheaper.  don't even get me started on al gore. 

that said, i don't think i want to vote for mccain either, he seems like a panderer, but not as bad as obama.  i also want to vote for bob barr because he ate borat's wife's tit cheese.

our government is what needs the change.. capitalism is a bad thing anymore. it helps rich people get really really rich. and has everyone else work for them

dude capitalism is the shit, it's why our country got so ballin to begin with, and why third world countries are starting to build themselves up (while the jobs created in india and china are notorious for underpayment, they are still jobs that wouldn't have been there if corporations hadn't seen the need for cheap labor, putting more and more money into their economies).  i agree that the people out there with ridiculous salaries shouldn't get such exorbitant amounts of money, but if they weren't allowed to, what would be the incentive to be in a business that's run effectively?  it's the desire to reach the top that makes people work so hard in this country.  but i mean if all we do is tax companies more, they're just going to raise their prices.  take for example the cap and trade act that has been proposed (www.nocapandtrade.com).  yes, it will benefit the environment, but it will throw our economy down the shitter because energy prices will get so high.  i mean companies need their profit margin, they're not just gonna eat the new taxes and be like "oh, it's for the good of the world."  the public just needs to buy environmentally friendly products and support environmentally friendly companies, and the others will follow suit eventually, all the while creating more jobs instead of putting more stress on those already giving away a third of their pay to the government.  i'm going to stop now, but i'm willing to discuss more if you'd like later.

finally at least someone understands what is going on. 

I find myself agreeing with Republicans more than anyone else.  I agree in the smallest possible amount of government.  that is a huge point for me, and that is a main platform of the Republicans.  Also Republicans are supposed to spend less than democrats.  Only problem is that for the past almost 8 years we have had a totally rogue republican administration that really broke a lot of rules.  They actually outspent the democrats, that's not supposed to happen.  I dont think most people realize that the Bush administration was not a true republican administration.  So I can tell that someone has no idea what they are talking about when they say they hate republicans because of Bush

The main point that I dont see eye to eye on with republicans is free trade.  I have been called a communist, ultra liberal, socialist ...............you name it, by republicans when I share my thoughts on this.  I just dont see any justifiable reason for Americans to be able to send American jobs over seas so that we all pay 1$ less for a cup.  Its not right to un employ so many Americans , just for corporate gain.  It hurts the economy in the long run.  I realize that in the global economy, our corporations have to be able to be competitive.  But that's easy.  Tax the shit out of any American company that sends jobs over seas ( to pay for all the well fare they are creating ) and tax the shit out of Foreign companies who want to enter our market.  Or at least make a substantial tax so that the American corporations still hold ground in America.  that's just what I think.

But your right about a democrat being in office right now.  Look at obamas health plan proposal.  who do you think is going to pay for that shit?  You think our gas prices are bad now?  wait until the tax alone on a gallon of gas is $5 just so that you have the convenience of walking into a ridiculously crowded doctors office or hospital with a 10 hour wait just for a free bottle of asprin.  I mean really, when was the last time a large government program actually worked?  Social security?  ok.  I find it strange that so many liberals support the Democrats.  yet at the same time bitch about the government having too much control and power.  The democrats are all about telling you how your pay check is best spent for the good of the poor in our country.  All about setting up programs that you have to pay for, but may not need.  The democrats are all about BIG government.  that just doesn't appeal to me. 

[wither-I]

voting is for slaves.

"Stop pretending! -Freedom is NOT having to choose."
-the greatest poet of our time, yours truly

[Variable]

out of everything that has been said in this thread.  Is that really the best you can contribute to seem intelligent?  Because it was really pretty pathetic.

[wither-I]

variable with the one, two punch again

[Variable]

I only needed the one, then you dropped like a lead weight. 

Every time you post, it is just further proof that you have absolutely nothing intelligent to say at all.

[tarkil]

tax the shit out of Foreign companies who want to enter our market.  Or at least make a substantial tax so that the American corporations still hold ground in America.  that's just what I think.

I wish I was not drunk yesterday, and hangovered today so that I could be brave enough to tell you how shitty I think this idea is...
But obviously that's not the case...

Anyway, my ramble would have been about how worldwide the economy was right now... So you cannot aim in the long run for living just with your country... If you put huge taxes for foreign companies to invest in your country, they will do the same, and it will be bad for everyone because no country is able to sustain itself anymore cause everything is so shared and intricated these days.
Just look at the markets man : a house crisis in the US is impacting markets and companies all over the world...
Everything is way too intricated now to come back to the old vision of favoring your own country and fucking the rest of the world...

That allows you to benefit from everything at every time, and is also a way of not putting all your eggs in the same basket : your capital is shared between different countries, different currencies, different activities, and same goes for the others.
Wealth is created from investment and most countries tend not to have money to invest these days. Mostly "old" and developped countries.

Anyway, that's pretty much of a meaningless and useless ramble as I'm completely unbrained today, but maybe I'll develop that one day...
Maybe not though...

[Variable]

Yeah I know what you mean man.  I was kind of just breaking it down in barney terms to pretty much say that I believe americans should work for american corporations before chinese people do.  If a French company wants to sell a product in america, that's fine with me.  I was over exaggerating my stance.  However I dont think that an American corporation like Nike should be able to set up factories all over china and then sell their product in The States.  So a small tax that a Foreign nation would be willing to pay in order to sell their products in a land of the wealthiest consumers in the world, and also help keep american businesses going.  I would understand if any other country did the same.  Right now the US has the Luxury of being able to grow big businesses without having to ship their products to the foreign market.  But if we keep at this rate, we will lose that.

[Shaye]

What is all this bullshit about "digging deeper at the root of the problem"? People have been doing that for years and years already. People who murder (with the exception of crimes of passion or self defense) or rape others are not of sound mind.

So what is the alternative? Sentence them to a 10 or 20 years jail sentence that tax payers pay for, while the scumbag eats 3 meals a day, lifts weights and fools everyone into thinking that he's turned to God to help him get through his struggle. Pedophilia is not curable. People don't go to therapy and rid themselves of the problem. If they do, it's a one in a million chance. How much longer do we spend trying to figure out what millions of different factors could have caused someone to do something so disgusting, while just letting it happen more and more?

What do you say in the meantime, "Don't worry, we're working on it" ? Are child rapists or murderers productive members of society? I sure as fuck don't think so. Frankly, I understand worrying about innocent people who are wrongly accused, but take that out of the equation and think about those who are guilty. What then?

Whether you are for or against the death penalty, please don't for a second think that people who rape or molest children can be rehabilitated. If they could they wouldn't have maps of your neighborhood on the internet showing red dots over the places where convicted molesters live.

yeah you pretty much missed my point.

its neither a decision nor some kind of illness to become a murderer/rapist etc.

its the wrong society who allows them to develop. sure the rape/murdere itself possibly is a decision but it has a longer history. and this is where the politicians should concentrate on.

elaborate what the problem is. spend money in preventive actions. profit.

killing people is a barbaric act. may it e by law or illegal. it may give others a feeling of security of rapists are killed but it wont stop the society from producing rapists.

I didn't miss your point. I took it for what it was and elaborated on the issue and provided some of my own opinions and questions.

What is the preventive actions people are supposed to spend money on? How can you prevent someone from doing something before they do it?

Changing society has nothing to do with rape and/or murder. Both have been happening throughout the world for thousands of years in all different societies and cultures. This isn't something that just popped up here in America one day.

i could imagine that for example murderer didnt happen very often until people noticed that they probabbly wont burn in hell for it.

Haha. Where are you imagining back to exactly? What you're imagining doesn't seem to gel with history as we know it.  Have you heard of the Crusades? The Holocaust? The Native Americans? Darfur? The list goes on and on. I could imagine a land of sunshine and rainbows and smiles, but that's not exactly how it is here, at least not where I live.

People have been killing and raping other people for centuries. I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from but the argument you're making doesn't make sense to me.

[Shaye]

well for those of you who were hoping that he was a genuine new breed of politician.  You can go ahead and let that go. 

A genuine new breed of politician is not what I was thinking, and anyone with a brain shouldn't have thought so either. But he's certainly intelligent, eloquent and IMO a wayyyyyyy better candidate than the other 2 dimwits he was up against. If he beats the his senile counterpart into office this year, only time will tell whether things work out. There is no sure thing when it comes to any of them, meaning Clinton, McCain or Obama.

easy shaye.  You dont have to like senator Mccain.  But he has lived an extraordinary life of service for our country.  I think he deserves a bit more respect than to call him a dimwit.

Ok well, I respect the service that he's provided for our country. But I'm excluding that from my views of him as a politician and possible president. As far as that's concerned I'm referring to him as a dimwit, as in someone that would not be good as the leader of this country. That's just my opinion. Not saying he wasn't brave and courageous in the past, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what it takes to makes decisions about an entire country and how it relates to the rest of the World.

[Oldnewtype]

Obama already won, and Mccain is just as horrible as Bush if not worse.

[Nailec]

What is all this bullshit about "digging deeper at the root of the problem"? People have been doing that for years and years already. People who murder (with the exception of crimes of passion or self defense) or rape others are not of sound mind.

So what is the alternative? Sentence them to a 10 or 20 years jail sentence that tax payers pay for, while the scumbag eats 3 meals a day, lifts weights and fools everyone into thinking that he's turned to God to help him get through his struggle. Pedophilia is not curable. People don't go to therapy and rid themselves of the problem. If they do, it's a one in a million chance. How much longer do we spend trying to figure out what millions of different factors could have caused someone to do something so disgusting, while just letting it happen more and more?

What do you say in the meantime, "Don't worry, we're working on it" ? Are child rapists or murderers productive members of society? I sure as fuck don't think so. Frankly, I understand worrying about innocent people who are wrongly accused, but take that out of the equation and think about those who are guilty. What then?

Whether you are for or against the death penalty, please don't for a second think that people who rape or molest children can be rehabilitated. If they could they wouldn't have maps of your neighborhood on the internet showing red dots over the places where convicted molesters live.

yeah you pretty much missed my point.

its neither a decision nor some kind of illness to become a murderer/rapist etc.

its the wrong society who allows them to develop. sure the rape/murdere itself possibly is a decision but it has a longer history. and this is where the politicians should concentrate on.

elaborate what the problem is. spend money in preventive actions. profit.

killing people is a barbaric act. may it e by law or illegal. it may give others a feeling of security of rapists are killed but it wont stop the society from producing rapists.

I didn't miss your point. I took it for what it was and elaborated on the issue and provided some of my own opinions and questions.

What is the preventive actions people are supposed to spend money on? How can you prevent someone from doing something before they do it?

Changing society has nothing to do with rape and/or murder. Both have been happening throughout the world for thousands of years in all different societies and cultures. This isn't something that just popped up here in America one day.

i could imagine that for example murderer didnt happen very often until people noticed that they probabbly wont burn in hell for it.

Haha. Where are you imagining back to exactly? What you're imagining doesn't seem to gel with history as we know it.  Have you heard of the Crusades? The Holocaust? The Native Americans? Darfur? The list goes on and on. I could imagine a land of sunshine and rainbows and smiles, but that's not exactly how it is here, at least not where I live.

People have been killing and raping other people for centuries. I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from but the argument you're making doesn't make sense to me.

you just mixed up the term "murderer" as we used it in this thread and as used by law with murderers and killings that where actually legal in their time.
the point is that it would be wrong onyl to blame the murderer for killing someone. for me its the society that creates murders.

your examples:

crusade: killing in the name of god was legal there. they werent murderers from this historical point of view.
but you have a good example of a society that legalizes killing other people.

native american: im not firm on this topic. but the settlers followed some very cruel and wrong aim. because of their society

holocaust: another perfect example of how killing other people is even tolerated. never compare the holocaust to the crusades or the killing of native americans.


conclusion: your examples miss my point cause you showed me some societies that legalized murderer.

what i mean is the time before the time of reconnaisance (18th century). of course there have been cruel wars and killings before but lets just stay on our example of a murderer of how we understand it today. and my thesis is that before the time of reconnaisance there have been less of them. why? because they feared to go to hell for murderer. when they begun to recognize that most likely there is no hell, murderer became more normal in the society.
(i am not saying that it is a good reason not to murder just because you believe you would go to hell otherwise. this is just an example of how societies could prevent murdering)

its wrong and dangerous to search the guilt just in the murderer himself.

[Nailec]

Age of Enlightenment is what i mean with time of reconnaissance.

i didnt know the english one...

[dictatesofreason]

fuck all that mccain osama and billery are the worst candidates for the presidency if ive seen any...its all shit if i had the greens id go live on the moon...to hell with the nigger

[Variable]

hm.  You see, its people like you that was the reason for the electoral college.

well for those of you who were hoping that he was a genuine new breed of politician.  You can go ahead and let that go. 

A genuine new breed of politician is not what I was thinking, and anyone with a brain shouldn't have thought so either. But he's certainly intelligent, eloquent and IMO a wayyyyyyy better candidate than the other 2 dimwits he was up against. If he beats the his senile counterpart into office this year, only time will tell whether things work out. There is no sure thing when it comes to any of them, meaning Clinton, McCain or Obama.

easy shaye.  You dont have to like senator Mccain.  But he has lived an extraordinary life of service for our country.  I think he deserves a bit more respect than to call him a dimwit.

Ok well, I respect the service that he's provided for our country. But I'm excluding that from my views of him as a politician and possible president. As far as that's concerned I'm referring to him as a dimwit, as in someone that would not be good as the leader of this country. That's just my opinion. Not saying he wasn't brave and courageous in the past, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what it takes to makes decisions about an entire country and how it relates to the rest of the World.

I see what you are saying.  I wasn't just talking about his military service though.  Also the life of service he provided in the Senate.  I mean of course you can think whatever you want of him.  Its just like I said, I dont think hillary would have been a good leader.  But I still respect her service and wouldn't call her a dimwit for it.  I have a harder time saying the same about obama.  seeing as how in all reality he really hasn't done a whole lot of anything in his political career.  But, im trying.  I need to be able to feel ok about if either candidate wins. 

Obama already won, and Mccain is just as horrible as Bush if not worse.

Mccain and Bush are VERY different.  The only thing they have in common is the fact they are both republicans. 

[Nailec]

y are you guys concentrating so much on the candidate?

what about the programs of the different parties you have over there?

[Variable]

Well I mean the candidate represents the party.

Plus I would love to see myself as above voting just for the party.  I would love to be able to look with blind eyes and just be able to assess who would be the best leader for the country.  Im sure im not even close to being there yet.  but I try.

[bright lights, big city]

too bad 90% of americans just vote for the party affiliation

[devilinside]

I dont vote based on party affiliation. I listen to what they say,it just happens that I lean more towards Democratic views as opposed to Republican ones. I agree with some Republican views,but none have convinced me thoroughly that I should vote for them. I dont base who I vote for by who my parents vote for or who a celebrity is voting for... I actually listen to each candidates views and base it on the ones I believe in.