obama

[defkitty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv7r3z2Fqy4

exactly how I feel about our two party system

[defkitty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjuEdJ0DAGc

Ron Paul on healthcare

he makes a good point of cutting spending overseas. that is what I believe needs to be done, and Obama has hinted at that recently. Why the hell spend $10 billion per month in Iraq when our economy is crap?  They have a surplus (not $80 billion like Obama says, but still around $40B)

Definitely. How can our country fix other countries when we can't even take care of ourselves?  It's definitely backwards and eludes to a lot of political personal interest conspiracies.  The answer seems so simple yet our government is still stuck on the NeoVietnam (a war that can't be won).  Hopefully we can get out soon enough to still have somewhat of a functioning economy.     

[Variable]

Yup.  That is for sure a great criteria to vote for president.  Money.  All my presidents must have lots of money.  Otherwise, they are not legit.  I wont vote for someone who doesn't have a lot of money. 

No,I'm talking funding so they can get out there and campaign!

Ill look up the stats.  But Ron Paul has SHIT TONS of campaign money.  He set two records for fund raising.  He held his own convention on his own dollar.  The republicans and democrats used tax dollars for theirs. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjuEdJ0DAGc

Ron Paul on healthcare

he makes a good point of cutting spending overseas. that is what I believe needs to be done, and Obama has hinted at that recently. Why the hell spend $10 billion per month in Iraq when our economy is crap?  They have a surplus (not $80 billion like Obama says, but still around $40B)

Don't get confused though. Ron Paul is not only talking about Iraq.  That is just one of the many countries he is speaking about.  He wants to pull out of Germany, Italy....well ill just say Europe. South Korea, Japan, the other pacific islands, South America......the whole world.  Wants to bring all of our over seas bases from all 130 countries back home.  Which of course means the end of the American empire.  In the end, people can't stomach that.  Not even Obama. 

And Iraq having a surplus just means they are poor.  You have to have a debt in order to be making money.  You also have to have a debt in order to get anyone to lend to you.  So we are actually fucking them by keeping them in surplus....as backwards as that sounds , its true.  I remember watching the HBO series "John Adams" and they were talking about that.  I was trying to figure out what the fuck they were talking about, how that made any sense at all.  I believe it was Holland that would not lend to the colonies because we had no debt established.  But yeah, its true. 

[tarkil]

the American empire

And what would that be please ? Is that how you consider the world ?

[Variable]

the American empire

And what would that be please ? Is that how you consider the world ?

Ha, brother.  Tell me where the nearest US base is to your country.  Then turn 90 degrees and tell me where the next closest US military base is.  Then 90 more degrees and tell me where the next closest military base is....ect....ect.  Then you can go about telling me what countries are part of the WTO, NATO, UN..... Then you can go tell me what countries are in debt to the US in some way.  Yes sir, you are living in the midst of the American empire, whether you think that is arrogant or not. It's true.

[tarkil]

That's definitely arrogant... As for the truth in your words, I'd say no as well.
Having few military bases around is no relevant criteria.

An empire would be so-called because of it's strength superiority (cf. Roman Empire) / culture superiority (cf. Greek empire) / recognition in the world / etc.
All this making the so called empire to shine towards the world, and have its "way of life" accepted and used among it. Whether it's by strength, fear, choice, etc.
And finally an empire would mainly bring better things for everyone living in it. Even if it starts by strength, an empire will only stick together if it's a vector of enbetterment and progress for people, else it will just collapse. USSR would be a great example of that. And actually USA is going the same way in my opinion these past 10-20 years.

Anyway, America is nowhere close to reaching any of these points, and unless big changes, will only get further away from that.


And FYI, UN and WTO are world organizations, not US organizations... Even NATO is, though it could indeed be considered as a US pawn.

[Variable]

Yes my friend.  I know what the UN and NATO are supposed to be.  But in fact, they are not that.  The UN sure did do a good job of keeping the US out of Iraq though. 

Fact of the matter is.  That the US is an empire right now.  The first of its kind actually.  A very subtle empire.  Took over the world without anyone really even noticing.  Through economics mainly.  A bit of military strength.  And a lot of culture ( why is it that you speak and read English again?  Even though you were born in France and live in Hong Kong?) All the music you listen to, movies you watch......But as I said, mainly economics.  Obviously the empire is still building.  I would say that the UK isn't exactly subservient to the US.  Most of Europe is only slightly in Debt to the US.  I can't really figure out the relationship between China and the US.  But you get what I'm saying.
A lot of very well educated historians are already calling this the age of the American empire.  The US doesn't meet your usual definition.  But as I said, a first of it's kind.

And its not arrogance man.  I don't like it one bit.  But I can accept the truth for what it is.

[tarkil]

I do not agree.

I do agree that US tended to be an empire after the 2 world wars, and during the cold war...
It was the strongest country around, took decisions for the good of everyone, had some "enlightened" (at least more than now) leaders, basically made the world a better place. That would be until few years after WW2, I'd say that cold war started to pull you down the shitter. That's when shitty manipulations started. Like installing "pawns" as head of states around to "fight" against USSR (Afghanistan would be an example you must be familiar with), etc.

Following this time, USA took for granted that it would always be a model for the world, and decided that it had the responsibility to apply this model to the world (that's even truer after fall of USSR). This basically caused Iraq wars, and everything that's happening now : most people around the world consider USA as arrogant pricks, wanting to force down their model and way of life down everyone's throat, whether they want it or not. And more important, whether it's good for them or not...

Unless some radical change sometime soon, USA will become an "everything that could have been", and will lose its leadership position. This is already happening, and I can see the economy crisis as a symptom of everything that went bad following all that.


I see 2 poles emerging on US ashes : China, and Europe.
Europe is just a potential at the moment to me, and is in no way able to dictate anything. For some reason, I would like to see Europe becoming the new enlightened leader of 21st century.
Let me quickly explain myself : Europe is a thousand years old civilization, that went through lots of different steps and crisis. I do believe experience is a necessary quality to be able to navigate through the problems of a full world and civilization, and try to bring the best from everyone. Obviously not sufficient, but in my opinion a "must have" thing.
Europe also is a diversity of cultures, people, opinions, and languages. Only through these differences can emerge a common ground in which people around the world will be able to identify, and will want to follow (remember what I said about what an empire should be ??).
Now, that's a little bit utopic, and frankly, I don't believe that's ever gonna be happening, or at least any time soon. Leaders of the world are way too selfish and self centered to think globally like that.
But as they say, one can dream...

China now.
China is even an older civilization than Europe. China has billions of people. China has resources.
But most important imho, China has the huge strength of not being a democracy as West sees it. And chinese people have a mentality waaaaaaaay different than occidental people : to them, individual is meaningless compared to the group. That is to say that culturally, China is ready to endorse a path where good of everyone prevails on good of individuals as selves. Which is why "westernized" democracy is not used in China, and is not going to be anytime soon. They are slowly coming to a new model, that will suit their culture, and their needs, and this is a huge strength.
If an enlightened (sorry don't know any other similar word)) leader were to be born there, and accessed to high powers there, and considered the wellness of mankind as more important than wellness of China, this could be a great new world order.
Anyway, same there : I don't see that happening anytime soon : China has not enough power on the international politics / diplomacy scene as of today to do anything. Plus they only act for China these days, and not for mankind as a whole (screwing everyone through illiquid currency, polluting earth like mad, etc.)

Once again, who knows what can happen next, so we can only hope...
Anyway, many many things we see these days make me think that world is changing, and things will soon be different than how we always knew them. Soon doesn't mean tomorrow or even in a few years... But definitely (once again only to your humble narrator's opinion) we are living through some historic times for mankind.
And I don't see America playing a role model in that. Once again, unless some big change on your side (environment friendly policy, world oriented foreign policy, culture outshining civilization, etc.) happens that is.


On that topic, and to answer your previous points :
As much as I love your music and movies, I don't consider this as an outshining contribution to the world.
I'll develop briefly cause I'm getting tired of all the typing, and no one will read through all that shit if too long :
I don't consider US movies to be vectors of anything else but entertainment. Take paintings from Renaissance Italian painters : they are major pieces of art because they change the representation of man in day to day life : they humanized religion, they gave a whole new dimension to life. Which I don't get in music and movies these days.
That's no US disease though, I don't think anyone around the world is doing anything like that these days. The closest thing I could think of would maybe be Dubai and China, through their crazy urbanization, which gives a vision of a power-limitless man, a man-god basically, where as long as you want something, you do it. Not sure that's a good thing though, does not really seem like a healthy vision to me.

And finally I do speak english not because of you but because of England stupid... Remember that's why you speak it too ? 
And more seriously, language is just a tool to perform communication, and happens to be the more wide spread these days for the "simple" reason that England managed to have colonies all around the world : america, oceania, africa, asia, and europe. It also happens that thanks to England influence, these countries attained before the others a higher level of culture, and played an important role on world scene. Which led to English being widely accepted as international language.


That's all.
And that's probably the longest post I've ever written in here.
I was thinking of posting some cock pictures on your other thread, I'm sort of glad I did that in the end instead...   




(BTW, I don't believe in 2012 theories bla bla bla...).

[Variable]

well don't worry, I read all of it.

I will try to be a bit more brief.  At the moment I really don't have the energy to properly make a propper rebuttal. 

But your definition of an empire, and thus why the US is not an empire, is a bit off.  For some reason you think an Empire has to help people, and civilizations.  I don't think that is necessarily true.  I think that it is very logical to assume that an empire could just oppress people for the greater good of the rulers. 

You also make it seem as if the subordinates of the empire have a say in who their emperor will be. These people may think Americans are pricks.  May hate the foreign policy of America.  May want nothing to do with America.  But that does not mean they will get their wish.  If we do not control these people through their own governments ( as we do most of the time ) we will find a silly reason to invade you, and occupy you, until you are brainwashed, and accept us. 

Look, you may want to see Europe or China or whoever emerge as the new world power for whatever reason.  But I think that is dangerous.  I would like to see the USA return to what it was intended to be ( definitely not an Empire or world police)  I would like to see nations just be nations again.  I would like to see people having control of their governments, without ANY outside influence from some world leader across a sea or continent.  I believe in the word sovereignty.  I believe in liberties.  I also believe in freedom ( with very, very slight implications of a social contract ) I don't see that being possible as long as some nation or group of nations try to reign as the world leader.  Governments just need to learn to stay within their own borders for the first time in history. 

Oh, and I knew you were going to use that " We all speak English because of England" crap.  Saw it before I even typed the question.  But I think you can read between the lines there, without me saying much.

[tarkil]

Funny that I just stumble upon this article :

http://www.newsweek.com/id/162401

[Variable]

I don't think anyone can deny that this is a dark time for America.  However, that should scare the shit out of you and me.  The US is a wounded dog in a corner, and  just happens to have the biggest bark, and bite out of anyone in the world.  Say what you will about China's population - ability to raise a ridiculous army.  Right now the US could destroy any continent on the planet just through its Naval and Air powers in a matter of days, without nuclear power.  There are very few nations out there that are even considered a legitamate threat for the US in an all out war.  To my knowledge, there aren't any that could reasonably be expected to win in a WW3 type setting.  Talk shit about big defense budgets all you want, it could just become the push back to the top.  Not to mention that the US itself is quite large.  The US can also raise quite a large army through a draft and nationalism.  I don't know the exact numbers for WW2 off the top of my head, but the US military was huge. 

A lot of Empires of the past got bailed out through military action.  I think it is pretty arrogant to think that the world could just walk away.  That the men who are in control of this massive power will just allow it to be swept from under them.  That is real arrogance my friend. 

[devlin]

collegehumor.com just helped me decide who to vote for. i don't know how to post pictures on here so heres a link.

http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1832201


seriously if those boobies told me to vote for the re-animated corpse of hitler i probably would.

[Variable]

I know everybody has to kick back and enjoy themselves.  But I really do worry that people pay more attention to stuff like that than actual substance.  I think that most people vote off hype instead of issues

[devilinside]

Woot for the US destroying any continent!

You know what I found interesting,In Japan,they select who goes to school,and Japan has the highest rate of FIVE YEAR OLD suicide anywhere...crazy shit.

[Variable]

We have a horrible military capability.  Everyone always focuses on Nukes.  But just parking a Marine Expeditionary Brigade or a Naval Expeditionary Force on anybodies shores in an all out assault would be devastating.  Just from the Marines, an Aircraft carrier, and the missiles from the ships.....Horrible.  Then we still have the Air force and Army.  I realize that other countries have military capabilities also.  But believe it or not, Naval power is still pretty much the best way to weigh how powerful your military is.  And our Navy is way beyond anybody elses at the moment.

That is why it scares me.  I don't want a fucking WW3 all in the name of preserving the American empire.  I just want the USA to be the great idea and country that it was created to be.  Just to stay within its borders.  Just preserve freedom and liberty to anyone who presides within her borders.  And this huge military capability just being the big stick to detour anyone from trying to take those liberties from us.  That's all I want.

[lithium]

[youtube=425,350]Kf6YKOkfFsE[/youtube]
fucking arab

[Variable]

Ill just go ahead and quote myself from the official board for this one....

Originally posted by My Own Fur:
yeah, this whole thing is horrible.  The way some people talk about Obama as if he is some domestic terrorist because of his race or name or whatever.  pure racism.  Then how the other side is totally kissing his ass and giving him a golden carpet ride into the white house, because of his race or name or whatever.  Also pure racism.  It's disgusting America.

[devilinside]

Wow....

http://news.aol.com/elections/article/colin-powell-voting-for-barack-obama/217016?icid=100214839x1211759696x1200730825

[Law]

[youtube=425,350]Kf6YKOkfFsE[/youtube]
fucking arab

no wonder a douchebag like Bush has been in for 2 terms when stupid bastards like that are voting.

[bright lights, big city]

Wow....

http://news.aol.com/elections/article/colin-powell-voting-for-barack-obama/217016?icid=100214839x1211759696x1200730825

that and the Chicago Tribune endorsed Obama. first democrat they've endorsed. EVER.