Urban Military Training In Denver, CO

[Oldnewtype]

How come no one is talking about this? I don't live anywhere near colorado but I know this has been going on all week. For those of you who haven't heard, the military (no one is sure which branch) has been performing urban takeover drills in an abandoned buildings all over downtown Denver. If you do live there I know you have to have seen the black helicopters flying overhead, dropping off unmarked soldiers in solid black clothing. They may have even threw you a glowstick with a US flag or army patch attatched to it. Well if it wasn't a drill, that glowstick would be a frag grenade or tear gas. Supposedly these drills are being conducted as training for the war on terror, some believe its related to the upcoming DNC meeting right down the street, but I believe its practice for martial law. Our rights have already been suppressed by the patriot act, the military could come to your town right this second and put you all under martial law, raid your house, take everything you have, imprison or even kill you, all legally, simply under the suspicion of being a terrorist. Sound familiar? Anyway I'm done ranting i just wanna know what you all think or this event, and what you think about the military conducting training drills in the middle of a heavily populated city, something they are never supposed to do.

[Variable]

jesus dude.  Posse Comitatus

[Jerry_Curls]

And its happening in Florida as well. Have you seen videos of the way the "cops" have been treating the people in Iowa? People just want to go to their homes and the police are  arresting people if they try to go back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONAudPPhum8

What happened to the 4th amendment? Will this be happening in YOUR city when a "disaster" happens?

[oldgentlovecraft]

Interesting

[Variable]

And its happening in Florida as well. Have you seen videos of the way the "cops" have been treating the people in Iowa? People just want to go to their homes and the police are  arresting people if they try to go back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONAudPPhum8

What happened to the 4th amendment? Will this be happening in YOUR city when a "disaster" happens?

that video shows absolutely nothing as to what you are talking about. And if what you said is true.  Ever think that maybe the police and fire dept. are just doing whats best for everyone?  Do you think the governor of Iowa wants to be hung out to dry because he let another katrina happen?  These idiots will be stubborn and want to go to their homes.  then when shit gets bad and floods again they will call and cry for help so that other people have to risk their lives ( and more tax dollars get spent ) just because this ass hole couldn't just tough it out in a hotel for a few weeks. 

I have no idea how the two of you dont see this as fear mongering.  There is perfectly logical reasoning in both situations and you guys are just making it shit that it is not.

[Jerry_Curls]

And its happening in Florida as well. Have you seen videos of the way the "cops" have been treating the people in Iowa? People just want to go to their homes and the police are  arresting people if they try to go back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONAudPPhum8
Ever think that maybe the police and fire dept. are just doing whats best for everyone?  Do you think the governor of Iowa wants to be hung out to dry because he let another katrina happen?  These idiots will be stubborn and want to go to their homes.  then when shit gets bad and floods again they will call and cry for help so that other people have to risk their lives ( and more tax dollars get spent ) just because this ass hole couldn't just tough it out in a hotel for a few weeks. 

I'm sorry, but you just explained what is going to happen when shit hits the fan. The goverment will offer a solution to the public, and if they don't want it, off they go to the FEMA camps [cough concentration camps cough]

In the video, police are BREAKING and ENTERING homes without even knocking. They are thugs in disguise.  Also, would you like to explain what  "Posse Comitatus" is?

EDIT: For some reason, I'm in the quote box too.

[Jerry_Curls]

Here is an article and videos that show this "training".

http://www.infowars.com/?p=2750

Hmmm..I love in the first video when the news comes on, they say this is anti-terrorism training. I dind't know there were terrorists in COLORADO. Oh yeah, I forgot about the blue-eyed, blonde-haired kind. You know, the ones that protest and don't agree witht he current government. It's starting RIGHT NOW.

[Nailec]

Ever think that maybe the police and fire dept. are just doing whats best for everyone?

yeah that is one side of the medal. the government has the duty to protect people.

but plz think about how far the government should be allowed to bury personal freedom for what they think is morally good.


same shit here in germany. last year we had the discussion if our military should be allowed to destroy planes that are highjacked.

i mean this is by far the worst case scenario but it pretty much sums it all up. the individual person and its freedom count a shit these days. its all about being as effective as possible. (in my example: people argue that a plane with 200 persons should be killed in order to prevent it from flying into a building with probablly more people)


freedom and equality are dialectic. the more you have of one, the less you have from the other.

facist regimes are based on equality (nazi-germany, past communistic regimes). a single person was nothing more than a means to the collective.

[wither-I]

How come no one is talking about this?

the military could come to your town right this second and put you all under martial law, raid your house, take everything you have, imprison or even kill you, all legally, simply under the suspicion of being a terrorist.

because most everyone want to keep blissful about things.

'ignoreance'

it could be either way...
but my prospect is, the rising tension in our nation is accusation for cause of rebellion or just plain rowdiness... they are preparing to quell the bite, if things should get out of hand. also considering the upcoming election. its basically protocal. or they (government/military) is really expecting something rather than a hypothetical measure. but marshall law sounds about right.
i do agree with Nailec about, -how much personal freedom should "one" sacrifice to what the government sees as a moral decision...

"the further they push, the further they get"
-physics

maybe "Orwellian" prophecy is on the "come-on"...
maybe this could be it...the push for "full-control"
but maybe im wrong...
however, what remains abound is that, in this day and age, you could ask yourself, "If 'they' have the power to indefininitley rule, in full control, wrought by fear mongering, and by the basic fact that in today's world technology is far advanced that the "layman" can't take up arms as they once could in defense of personal freedom, why would'nt they??

"people should not fear their government, government should fear their people"
-whoever said this (i forget)
"vice-a-versa"
-today (fact)

[Variable]

alright.  God dammit you guys piss me off when you make me get all preachy because you're spouting nonsense.  Look

Jerry curls.  Those rescue workers ( there was a large group of representatives from the police and fire departments)  were not breaking and entering.  You have no idea what was going on there.  However if you did a little bit of research instead of taking it at face value you would probably find out they were doing a public service.  Maybe they were looking for disabled people who could not evacuate.  Maybe looking for someone having a serious medical emergency ( IE Stroke ) who was not able to get out.  Maybe a child was left to starve because their grandparent dropped dead of a heart attack with all the excitement.  Maybe they were looking for stranded animals who got left behind for whatever reason.  Maybe they were checking for looting or fire hazards.  Either way , if they were "thugs" who were " breaking and entering " they would not have brought cameras, and so many people.  I would be willing to bet that the entire purpose of the cameras was so that they could document their entry as a record of damage and the condition of the house before and upon entry.  Take it easy on the rescue workers.  There are no fucking concentration camps or anything like that.  Calm the fuck down.

You should look up Posse Comitatus for yourself.  As I am in no way an expert.  But basically its the US policy for using the US military on US soil.  It pretty much states that without declaring martial law, the military can't be used, period.  And I happen to know that they take this very seriously.

And to the whole thing in Denver.  Those videos were bull shit.  Just a bunch of dudes bored out of their mind running around making speculation.  Some little girl drew some pics because the helicopters scared her and that is supposed to be proof of a government conspiracy to take down denver?  Ok   No bodys rights were being violated.  The military has to train, we aren't just born with these skills.  Every base has a "MOUNT town" Military Operations in Urban Terrain.  Or a CQB range ( close quarters combat ) where we train for shit like this.  However they are pretty much just shitty wana be buildings ( maybe two floors if you are lucky) made our of cinder blocks, and not very realistic for actual real life scenarios.  So maybe the special operations command worked out a deal to get their boys better training ( as this will save their lives when the real thing happens )

Those little bullets that the dude had and didn't know what they were are called "sim rounds" pretty much our version of paint balls.  They are shot through a 9mm and m4.  We use them because they fucking hurt.  I still have a scar on my left arm from getting shot by one over a year ago.  So you dont want get shot by them.  This creates real life stress when you are in an environment where you might get shot by one.  So the more stressful the training the better you will react to stress in real combat.  The results of stress training are pretty amazing actually.  So I would imagine that they were taking that training and putting it in a real world environment to make those operators as comfortable as possible in case they ever have to enter large buildings like this.  They do these kind of drills on Naval ships and oil rigs too.  do you think that's because they are going to declare martial law and put everyone on the oil rig in a concentration camp?  Or maybe there is a possibility that a terrorist could get control over an oil rig, US naval ship, or a sky scraper full of citizens ( think die hard ) and they just want to be prepared.  Which sounds more logical?

I seriously doubt the chem lights were any attempt to practice fagging citizens. That doesn't even make sense on so many levels.  First, the military barely even carries frag grenades any more.  Ever seen black hawk down where the dudes are shooting grenades from their M 16?  Its called a 203 40mm grenade launcher.  And those grenades wont explode if you throw them.  That is what almost everyone carries these days.  So practicing throwing grenades would be a waste of time.  Plus it would be a really ineffective and expensive way to take out people if the scenario you are describing is true.  These dudes would be blasting unarmed citizens.  You can only carry a couple grenades on your person.  they are bulky and heavy, why not just shoot people?  a 5.56 bullet is a lot cheaper than a frag grenade , and easier to transport.  It just doesn't make sense.  More than likely those guys in the helicopter were just really excited to get some cool training.  they love their country and the citizens they serve and they knew a lot of eyes would be on them, so they threw some shit out for good showmanship.  Ever seen troops in Iraq throw candy to kids?  you think that's a training exercise in how to frag 5 year olds?  Or just the soldiers and marines trying to feel like they did a small act of kindness?  Which sounds more logical? 

Look.  You can think what you want about the government.  that is your business.  But take it easy on the guys who took an oath to protect you, police and military.  I have two very good friends who are in the special forces.  And believe me, neither of them would hurt a hair an American citizens head.  One of them is just an ultra constitutionalist.  Does not believe in the infringement of any rights, period.  He tried getting down to New Orleans when Katrina happened because he was outraged that the police were taking the guns from the citizens ( 2nd amendment ) .  the other is a much older wiser man.  Who often shared feeling of conflict with me.  He loved being a marine for the adventure and excitement.  But told me that being a marine often got in the way of how he actually wanted to live his life.  He is a Buddhist and has very strong feelings about taking care of the environment and he doesn't feel like being a marine allows him to live his life under those beliefs.  Either one of them could have been one of the guys on those helicopters.  You have to remember that those of us in the military are citizens too.  We have family and friends too.  And we are not mindless drones.  I dont care how many movies you have seen with a young enlisted guy giving a "sir yes sir" and running off to conduct a mission without question.  that is not realistic at all.  That is not real world.  Its fantasy.  The members of the US military are middle class american citizens.  do you really think we would be shouting praise at the order to oppress our own?  Do you really think I would do that to you?  Give me a break man.  A lot of people join the military for education benefits.  Others because they really believe in serving the people.  And a very very small percentage just because they are crazy fuckers that want to kill.  Those of us with level heads greatly out number the idiots.  So rest easy man, we are here for you.  Give us a break.

[Variable]

Ever think that maybe the police and fire dept. are just doing whats best for everyone?

yeah that is one side of the medal. the government has the duty to protect people.

but plz think about how far the government should be allowed to bury personal freedom for what they think is morally good.


same shit here in germany. last year we had the discussion if our military should be allowed to destroy planes that are highjacked.

i mean this is by far the worst case scenario but it pretty much sums it all up. the individual person and its freedom count a shit these days. its all about being as effective as possible. (in my example: people argue that a plane with 200 persons should be killed in order to prevent it from flying into a building with probablly more people)


freedom and equality are dialectic. the more you have of one, the less you have from the other.

facist regimes are based on equality (nazi-germany, past communistic regimes). a single person was nothing more than a means to the collective.

you are always the voice of reason when I dont express myself enough, and I appreciate that.  I actually believe in the smallest amount of government possible.  I honestly dont believe in forcing people to do anything on their private property ( im sure there are exceptions to that statement ) I appreciate that you remember history and are careful to warn us of mistakes from the past.  I was simply trying to get across that the intentions of those workers was unknown.  But chances are that they were honest and good.  We didn't see what started the dispute between that citizen and the police officer.  but that guy could have just got caught taking a shit in his neighbors pool or something.  Who knows.  I have worked as a EMT before I joined the navy, and obviously as a member of the US military.  I have always seen such good intentions in the people I work with.  I dont understand how people are so quick to negatively judge us. 

But like I said, the smallest amount of government possible.

[Fireal1222]

a puddle that a bum just pee'd in > our government

[Variable]

I would ask you a way to map out a plan to make our government better.  But I would imagine the only answer I would receive is "legalize it" so I wont even bother.

[Fireal1222]

I would ask you a way to map out a plan to make our government better.  But I would imagine the only answer I would receive is "legalize it" so I wont even bother.

instead of spending over $12 billion dollars a month on the war.. they can let not one person starve on the entire planet.. our own country has people starving.. but lets keep putting that 12 billion into the war effort..


oh and that same government made you guys nazis. not soldiers.

oh yeah. and legalize it

[Variable]

so now I am a nazi?

[Fireal1222]

i said that to add more power to my post


but u told me to come up with a plan that would better the government. and i came up with one

spend that 12 billion dollars on people who really need it


i wonder why we are in an economic crisis though. its shocking. our government only spent over a trillion dollars on the war.. thats not me just joking around either. thats a fact. over one TRILLION dollars on the war.. but i really have no idea why our economy is in recession

[Nailec]

i said that to add more power to my post


but u told me to come up with a plan that would better the government. and i came up with one

spend that 12 billion dollars on people who really need it


i wonder why we are in an economic crisis though. its shocking. our government only spent over a trillion dollars on the war.. thats not me just joking around either. thats a fact. over one TRILLION dollars on the war.. but i really have no idea why our economy is in recession

seems to me that your morality has a pretty limited reach. i dont wanna say youre a nationalist because im pretty much sure you just not made your point clear enough. but the thought, that the government should just spent money for inner conflicts is moraly pretty weak to my ears.

i also know that probablly the us wars arent only fought in order to free other people. if so, they would fight a lot more wars since there are dictatorships etc. everywhere.

also i am not sure if we two have the knowledge to judge that some more money would save a whole economy. i mean im pretty sure no one in the would is able to tell us every possible consequence of a economic action. if someone could, there would be no crisis.

often enough im also like "wtf" when i here where our taxes go (last weak i heard about the euro fighter pilots training a nuclear bomb-drop)

[Fireal1222]

read my first post


i said we should spend the money for anyone in need on the PLANET. not just the usa. i gave starving people in our own country as an example..



another example for variable on what the government could do to better itself. is help change the schooling systems..

[shine down unshy]

vote for pedro

[untz untz untz]

lolz @ SL idiots, nothing new