Wow these kids now adays!

[Variable]

is it true white people raise their kids spoiled? lol in american you cant hit your kids. in the other country you can hit your kids

Well,I think you can't help but spoil your children,but they also need to learn how to appreciate what you do for them. I will admit my children are spoiled,but they are grateful for everything they have. When they have great behavior,I don't mind spoiling them. I am very proud of them.

i think spoiled is a bad term. if you buy your kids a toy, some people think you are spoiling them. being spoiled to me means not being grateful for the things you have and receive and not giving back in kind. in other words being selfish. for instance, since my daughter is the only grandchild, her grandparents buy her stuff all the time, even though she doesn't ask for it. but the funny thing is, she could care less about the material gifts and just likes to spend time with her grandparents

in america & canada it seems like the parents are scared of their kids.

hulk hogan's son is an example of a rich spoiled kid?

You're right.  It does seem like a lot of parents are scared of their kids.  It seems as if adults are more worried about if their children will love them or like them as friends than they are truly raising them properly.  Of course there are great parents out there doing all the right things.  And I do believe that you have to cater to your childs personality just a bit.  But I just think people are spending too much time watching oprah and Dr phil learning the proper ways to hug their children than they do actually raising them.

Its scary though.  Its easy to say this shit when you're not a parent ( I have no kids, yet ) So im hoping to be able to find the right balance.  Obviously I am going to love my children and want to spoil the shit out of them.  But I just think its important to remember that you are trying to raise a well rounded , happy, and successful (by their own standards) adult.  And like josh said, its not spoiled if they appreciate what they have and dont take it for granted.  Thats probably the biggest thing. 

[shine down unshy]

Kids grow up too fast, so it's best to start beating them when they're still in diapers.  Just kidding.

But I think when I have children, I will discipline them with fairness and respect.  I want my kids to grow up to be happy with themselves and to treat others with respect.

[wither-I]

That statement right there means that I can come up with any scenario I want

you can ake any statement anyone makes and construe it to your liking if you really want to be a child about this. i feel sorry for you man... you overlook many important things... dont waste your time

[Variable]

you are a waste of time because you have no idea what you are talking about.  You're just spouting off ideas and fantasies that you will more than likely grow out of in 10 years once you have more life experience and figure out how the world really works.  You say one thing.  Then hold it against me when I throw your own words back in your face.  If you didn't mean it, then you shouldn't have said it.  Good luck growing up.

If you are not a liberal at twenty, you have no heart. If you are not a conservative at forty, you have no brain.
- Winston Churchill

[wither-I]

i meant abruptly to kill. to kill because i am told to kill. mostly never putting myself in the "position to have to make a choice like this" -----> [WAR]

im sorry my explanations are not good enough for you. you must still press a point which has already been consumed and devoured.

the simple fact that the only points you can make against me "are the many facets of what my words could be construe as", is typical of your narrow mindedness. be creative. i say so many things and you only stick to the "follies of word generality". i know you prob wont but if you re-read my posts its all in there, you just presume upon face value too much its silly.

oh and i dont consider myself a liberal at all. i have no affiliation. if i was anything id be more conservative though because i believe in life and the security of it.

you fail to recognize my point once again as you have insessantly  done throughout your posts. you miss the point that this "REAL-WORLD" you speak of, and living amongst it as one's only utility is a shame. you are far too deep in a "societal" aspect of living. i agree that we humans are a herd species and tend to coagulate to form and system and order but the spree for something better cannot be honestly underminded, though you NAIL it. all i keep bringing to light is peace and love peace and love and all you do is argue argue  argue argue argue argue argue argue argue argue argue argue argue argue argue and argue...... you surpass all kindly offerings therefor you shall recieve angst and fear and volatile agression, all which you resemble so well in your passages. its pointless to argue any further because you present nothing new, much of the same mantras and creeds you have been stitched to, -harmonizing past victories of tripole and the spread of your designed affection of democracy and privelege through power. 

"I see that people do not want their freedom, their true natural rights to habitat, self and earth, they do not want it because it allows others to have it, and in that -others will have it- they will defy their power. people want to be known amongst the 'powers of difference' (pompous individualism). therefor character cannot be had, and fame and rightcheousness are ellusive"

these are your opinons variable, and your character. respond with defense, as you always do and you will only reach confines. and stupid "real-world" quotes by winston churchill (i admit its a good quote if you enjoy being part of a greater system and like others to be in control of your 'wordly inhibitions', -who you may admire, but you should maybe seek some other teachings "besides war." enlighten yourself my friend. all you seem to know is power relations and how they further relate to well....power relations. all you will end up with in your world is despair. try some philosophy.

AND FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR-SELF PRACTICE ANYTHING BUT WAR!

[Variable]

wow, you really are an elitist.  You think you have it all figured out and those of us who dont agree are just idiots.  Including some of the greatest men in history.  Interesting.

I understand everything in your post just fine.  I simply decided to show you that the righteous zeal for peace that you so proudly proclaimed could be proved false in a matter of one or two post.  And you ignored plenty of legitimate points that I brought up too.  So take your nose out of the air and try to keep up with whats really going on.

The entire point of how this complete waste of time ( as you go off on stupid rants about nothing almost worse than ross) was that you were bashing the generation that kelly brought up.  Kelly said she respected that generation for how they raised their children ( and I agreed ) But then you went off about how horrible this generation was because of the wars they participated in.  And then I tried to make the point ( which you totally missed ) That those people had no choice in the matter.  Hitler was not going to stop if someone asked nicely enough ( Europe already tried that ) And this generation even managed to stay out of the war until attacked by Japan.  Tensions were already high because everyone knew they couldn't just turn their back on the horrors that were taking place over both seas.  And most assumed that if Hitler won his campaign in Europe, it would just be a matter of time before he attacked the US.  So my point was, they had no choice.  They had to do it.  But then you went off about how you would never, ever, under any circumstances resort to violence, and that you "would rather be done"  So I gave you a scenario where you would.  So if you had half a brain to keep up in the conversation, you would have seen that I led you on a leash to admit that you are the same as that generation.  Just a little more stupid because I had to sit here and re explain it piece by piece.

[Oldnewtype]

kids are the stupidest motherfuckers I've ever seen.

[Variable]

any age in particular?  Because some kids never grow up

[devilinside]

kids are the stupidest motherfuckers I've ever seen.

So you're calling yourself a stupid motherfucker? Cause...we were all kids once...and to our parents were still kids.

[wither-I]

wow, you really are an elitist.  You think you have it all figured out and those of us who dont agree are just idiots.  Including some of the greatest men in history.  Interesting.

I understand everything in your post just fine.  I simply decided to show you that the righteous zeal for peace that you so proudly proclaimed could be proved false in a matter of one or two post.  And you ignored plenty of legitimate points that I brought up too.  So take your nose out of the air and try to keep up with whats really going on.

The entire point of how this complete waste of time ( as you go off on stupid rants about nothing almost worse than ross) was that you were bashing the generation that kelly brought up.  Kelly said she respected that generation for how they raised their children ( and I agreed ) But then you went off about how horrible this generation was because of the wars they participated in.  And then I tried to make the point ( which you totally missed ) That those people had no choice in the matter.  Hitler was not going to stop if someone asked nicely enough ( Europe already tried that ) And this generation even managed to stay out of the war until attacked by Japan.  Tensions were already high because everyone knew they couldn't just turn their back on the horrors that were taking place over both seas.  And most assumed that if Hitler won his campaign in Europe, it would just be a matter of time before he attacked the US.  So my point was, they had no choice.  They had to do it.  But then you went off about how you would never, ever, under any circumstances resort to violence, and that you "would rather be done"  So I gave you a scenario where you would.  So if you had half a brain to keep up in the conversation, you would have seen that I led you on a leash to admit that you are the same as that generation.  Just a little more stupid because I had to sit here and re explain it piece by piece.

fail.

[Variable]

oh yeah, there's a "creative" and intelligent rebuttal just stop posting man.  You make yourself look more like an idiot every time.

kids are the stupidest motherfuckers I've ever seen.

So you're calling yourself a stupid motherfucker? Cause...we were all kids once...and to our parents were still kids.

that's the truth.  Im visiting my mom right now and she is driving me crazy the way she is trying to pamper me like a little kid. 

[devilinside]

oh yeah, there's a "creative" and intelligent rebuttal just stop posting man.  You make yourself look more like an idiot every time.

kids are the stupidest motherfuckers I've ever seen.

So you're calling yourself a stupid motherfucker? Cause...we were all kids once...and to our parents were still kids.

that's the truth.  Im visiting my mom right now and she is driving me crazy the way she is trying to pamper me like a little kid. 

Eat it up! Cause you never know if it will be the last time. And she's a mom...that's what we do to our kids,no matter how old you are!

[Nailec]

Kelly said she respected that generation for how they raised their children ( and I agreed ) But then you went off about how horrible this generation was because of the wars they participated in.  And then I tried to make the point ( which you totally missed ) That those people had no choice in the matter.  Hitler was not going to stop if someone asked nicely enough ( Europe already tried that ) And this generation even managed to stay out of the war until attacked by Japan.  Tensions were already high because everyone knew they couldn't just turn their back on the horrors that were taking place over both seas.  And most assumed that if Hitler won his campaign in Europe, it would just be a matter of time before he attacked the US.  So my point was, they had no choice.  They had to do it.

i want to turn this discussion back on topic so i only ask some questions to this part and ignore your personal fight.


my question is: how did the one and the same generation in the usa differ from the one in germany?
lets just be blind about other factors as the germans wanting revenge for WW 1 and the reparations and so forth.

would it have been possible that Hitler could have done the same thing in the usa at this time?
if no: why
if yes: how then was this a kind of good education?

Tensions were already high because everyone knew they couldn't just turn their back on the horrors that were taking place over both seas.  And most assumed that if Hitler won his campaign in Europe, it would just be a matter of time before he attacked the US.  So my point was, they had no choice.  They had to do it

this sounds to much as the americans really had to fight because of some adventage and not because they wantet to fight nazi germany out of moral reasons.

what you mean of those two?

[Variable]

oh yeah, there's a "creative" and intelligent rebuttal just stop posting man.  You make yourself look more like an idiot every time.

kids are the stupidest motherfuckers I've ever seen.

So you're calling yourself a stupid motherfucker? Cause...we were all kids once...and to our parents were still kids.

that's the truth.  Im visiting my mom right now and she is driving me crazy the way she is trying to pamper me like a little kid. 

Eat it up! Cause you never know if it will be the last time. And she's a mom...that's what we do to our kids,no matter how old you are!

oh believe me.  I am trying.  I just need her to listen a bit when im trying to let her know that she is really getting on my nerves.  Like she ask me if I want anything and everything.  Like the other night at dinner there was a tray of apples two inches from my hand and shes like " do you want some apples?" im like, mom if I wanted an apple I would move my hand two inches and get one myself.  And its like that all day long with everything.  It just starts to wear on me.  But im trying my best to make her happy and just grin and bear it when I have to.

Kelly said she respected that generation for how they raised their children ( and I agreed ) But then you went off about how horrible this generation was because of the wars they participated in.  And then I tried to make the point ( which you totally missed ) That those people had no choice in the matter.  Hitler was not going to stop if someone asked nicely enough ( Europe already tried that ) And this generation even managed to stay out of the war until attacked by Japan.  Tensions were already high because everyone knew they couldn't just turn their back on the horrors that were taking place over both seas.  And most assumed that if Hitler won his campaign in Europe, it would just be a matter of time before he attacked the US.  So my point was, they had no choice.  They had to do it.

i want to turn this discussion back on topic so i only ask some questions to this part and ignore your personal fight.


my question is: how did the one and the same generation in the usa differ from the one in Germany?
lets just be blind about other factors as the Germans wanting revenge for WW 1 and the reparations and so forth.

would it have been possible that Hitler could have done the same thing in the usa at this time?
if no: why
if yes: how then was this a kind of good education?

Tensions were already high because everyone knew they couldn't just turn their back on the horrors that were taking place over both seas.  And most assumed that if Hitler won his campaign in Europe, it would just be a matter of time before he attacked the US.  So my point was, they had no choice.  They had to do it

this sounds to much as the americans really had to fight because of some adventage and not because they wantet to fight nazi germany out of moral reasons.

what you mean of those two?

great questions.

The world generations of that time may have shared the same birth dates.  But they grew up in very different societies ( think of comparing me to a guy who was born in Iran at the same time, we would be the same age, but very different) So as the US and Germany had very different societies back then, that is how the people differed.

However to answer your next question.  Yes, of course Hitler ( or a man like Hitler ) could have done the same in the United States.  Hitler was brought to power and so influential by the fact that he was extremely charismatic.  He made people love him and forget what his actual policies and direction for germany was.  We can learn from this by how we vote in our officials today.  The US (as I cant speak for other countries ) is notorious ( even in todays presidential race ) for voting in men who have no business being president.  We just vote them in because we like them.  The candidates focus more on throwing our key slogans and making themselves lovable and desirable than they do actually speaking about issues or illustrating an actual direction they have for the country.  Just the other day I listened to comments made by Mccain and Obama about the US economy.  Each said it was an issue they were very concerned about.  Neither of them gave any indication that they had a plan or the ability to fix it.  But that's OK because most people dont care.  They just want to hear that their candidate agrees with them.  The candidates know that the people will blindly follow them as long as they stay lovable , relatable, and sincere.  Its pathetic.  What we can learn from Adolf Hitler is that it is very dangerous to blindly follow someones Rhetoric and Propaganda ( yeah kids Politicians are still spewing it out in 2008 ) instead of actually taking the face and eloquence away from the candidates and actually looking at who is most qualified for the job.  If we did that we would probably be looking at two different candidates.

How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.
Adolf Hitler

All great movements are popular movements. They are the volcanic eruptions of human passions and emotions, stirred into activity by the ruthless Goddess of Distress or by the torch of the spoken word cast into the midst of the people.
Adolf Hitler

All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.
Adolf Hitler

and to your last question.  I think that a lot of people wanted to fight the Nazis out of moral reasons ( but remember we did not know 1 100th to the extent of the holocaust until the war was over ) and others remembered WW1 and wanted nothing to do with another war.  I think some people felt threatened by the rise of socialism and totalitarianism in the world and though the US might be next if no action was taken.  And other just thought if they kept it out of sight out of mind it would be ok.  This is why we were late entering the war.  The country was not unified around one belief.  Then Pearl Harbor happened and that was the end of that.  The country was unified and we went and took care of business.  Nobodys speculations and assumptions mattered any more.  We got attacked, and we sure as shit were not going to let that happen again.  So the military did its job and made sure that it didn't, and it didn't.  That the strength of that generation that I was speaking to.  I do not believe Americans today could do the same thing.

shit I should have just wrote a book.  It would have taken less time

[Nailec]

However to answer your next question.  Yes, of course Hitler ( or a man like Hitler ) could have done the same in the United States.  Hitler was brought to power and so influential by the fact that he was extremely charismatic.  He made people love him and forget what his actual policies and direction for germany was.  We can learn from this by how we vote in our officials today.  The US (as I cant speak for other countries ) is notorious ( even in todays presidential race ) for voting in men who have no business being president.  We just vote them in because we like them.  The candidates focus more on throwing our key slogans and making themselves lovable and desirable than they do actually speaking about issues or illustrating an actual direction they have for the country.  Just the other day I listened to comments made by Mccain and Obama about the US economy.  Each said it was an issue they were very concerned about.  Neither of them gave any indication that they had a plan or the ability to fix it.  But that's OK because most people dont care.  They just want to hear that their candidate agrees with them.  The candidates know that the people will blindly follow them as long as they stay lovable , relatable, and sincere.  Its pathetic.  What we can learn from Adolf Hitler is that it is very dangerous to blindly follow someones Rhetoric and Propaganda ( yeah kids Politicians are still spewing it out in 2008 ) instead of actually taking the face and eloquence away from the candidates and actually looking at who is most qualified for the job.  If we did that we would probably be looking at two different candidates.

because of that pretty negative picture of people in your society, which i share and of which i think it also fits for germany in these days is why i am for a way more critical and free education than most people in this thread allow. with critical i mean that every single clap is something that makes the child stay quite and to force back their feelings.
a discipline that says "you have to listen to your parents, teachers etc" is uncritical in the same way, just without physical violence.


in some small town here in germany, the NPD got 25% of votes. NPD is the follow-up party of the NSDAP.

i just fear that a lot of people could allow another dictatorship if things in the world (economy) go worse.

this is y quotet Adorno. i think his thoughts 25 years after auschwitz are again pretty actual. i mean i dont actually fear a dictatorship within the next years but every fascist is one fascist to much.

[Variable]

Well people forget.  People start to live very comfortable and removed lives.  Gives people too much time to think about the way the world should be instead of the way the world is.  It is our responsibility to our children to raise them in a safe and enjoyable environment.  But at the same time educate them in such a manner that they can appreciate how it is they got where they are. 

I think negative reinforcement can be a great tool if used properly.  I believe in strict disciplined environments too.  But what I think you are describing may be a bit too strict for my taste.  I want kids to be guided in a way where they can understand logic and reason and make thier own beliefs on the world so that they truly are their own beliefs.  I wouldn't want them to feel forced or brainwashed into believing what you and I believe are right, just to have them rebel against it for the sake of rebellion.  Hopefully if you taught them proper history ( so that they could see how bad some people had it (( im guessing wither - i slept through most of his history classes )) and see where they are now ) taught them basic morals, and taught them reason and logic.  They probably would grow up to believe in democracy and freedom.  And they also probably wouldn't be able to be sweet talked into totalitarianism very easily either.

[LIFEAFTERDEATH]

Variable is the perfect example of a brainwashed human being. I can't say that without offense. the truth is an offense. Where did you find logic? out of extreme illogic it appears.

[Variable]

I think for myself, thanks.  But if you care to give some rhyme or reason for that statement then I would be more than happy to make you look like an idiot as well.

[devilinside]

LOL

[Nailec]

Well people forget.  People start to live very comfortable and removed lives.  Gives people too much time to think about the way the world should be instead of the way the world is.  It is our responsibility to our children to raise them in a safe and enjoyable environment.  But at the same time educate them in such a manner that they can appreciate how it is they got where they are. 

I think negative reinforcement can be a great tool if used properly.  I believe in strict disciplined environments too.  But what I think you are describing may be a bit too strict for my taste.  I want kids to be guided in a way where they can understand logic and reason and make thier own beliefs on the world so that they truly are their own beliefs.  I wouldn't want them to feel forced or brainwashed into believing what you and I believe are right, just to have them rebel against it for the sake of rebellion.  Hopefully if you taught them proper history ( so that they could see how bad some people had it (( im guessing wither - i slept through most of his history classes )) and see where they are now ) taught them basic morals, and taught them reason and logic.  They probably would grow up to believe in democracy and freedom.  And they also probably wouldn't be able to be sweet talked into totalitarianism very easily either.

i agree. just let us elaborate, what we mean with "teach".

i mean its not a frontal, one sided thing in the way that i tell my kid what it has to do. with my children hopefully it will be more a conversation. i try to leed them to reach morality, virtues and the other important stuff. perhaps my own morality is seen totally wrong in the generaton of my children. so i dont want them to think the same way i do.