should deftones have disbanded after white pony?

[fireflyry]

It's kinda shitty sometimes I'm not as pumped about the next record as I have been with previous efforts. s/t especially.

I mean, this band used to be my whole world. They're still important to me, but just not in the same way. I don't really know why exactly, but I've just been doing more stuff now, you know? I have a girlfriend who doesn't even know who they are and wouldn't think of trying to get into them, and 90% of my spare time is spent with her. I really gotta make more time for myself because I'm losing interest in the things that gave me pleasure before.

Like bestiality.

Welcome to life.

My name is Ry.....and I'm a wizard.

[goldpony]

i think that as long as bands keep making music they are happy with, thats the only thing that matters. if they are doing it for reasons other than that, they need to call it a day. i think the tones have been quite pleased with what they have released (even if they have issues with SNW) and the sound keeps evolving. i personally cant wait for their new stuff just to see what direction they take.

[fireflyry]

Nice post right there ^^^^^

[goldpony]

Nice post right there ^^^^^

it shouldnt surprise anyone, since im teh shit

[cyppe101]

i think that as long as bands keep making music they are happy with, thats the only thing that matters. if they are doing it for reasons other than that, they need to call it a day. i think the tones have been quite pleased with what they have released (even if they have issues with SNW) and the sound keeps evolving. i personally cant wait for their new stuff just to see what direction they take.

Exactly.

Nice post right there ^^^^^

it shouldnt surprise anyone, since im teh shit

Right...   

[Jacob]

i think that as long as bands keep making music they are happy with, thats the only thing that matters. if they are doing it for reasons other than that, they need to call it a day. i think the tones have been quite pleased with what they have released (even if they have issues with SNW) and the sound keeps evolving. i personally cant wait for their new stuff just to see what direction they take.

great post, couldn't agree more. however, I thought they had more problems with S/T and were quite satisfied with SNW?

[Hidalgo]

i think that as long as bands keep making music they are happy with, thats the only thing that matters. if they are doing it for reasons other than that, they need to call it a day. i think the tones have been quite pleased with what they have released (even if they have issues with SNW) and the sound keeps evolving. i personally cant wait for their new stuff just to see what direction they take.

great post, couldn't agree more. however, I thought they had more problems with S/T and were quite satisfied with SNW?

yea, they didn't act real happy about how s/t turned out, but they all seemed content about snw

[ALightOn]

As to agreeing with you, it's a mixed back.  BAG? Look, no Hexagram=fucked up...the only thing I'll agree with the White Pony split (disband) is that Chino started his uhhh...decline in between White Pony and S/T...that is a fucking GREAT album...Snw left ALOT t o be desired (for me) also... (me) Minerva is a (way) better single than Change...it pisses me off (seriously) that S/T gets slighted the way it does and most jock white pony way too much...Look, If I really had to pick which album I liked better, that answer would probably change fro day to day-but S/T is a MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bergerac]

I wouldn't have minded if they disbanded after 'Deftones'. SNW ended up fucking horrible.

[kalhan]

that's odd. i'd say some of the songs on snw are the best deftones tracks to date.

[Bergerac]

I loved the Ezrin stuff, and I think material like 'Buffalo' was evocative of a post-S/T creative peak. I think if S/T was them going through the motions of all or any horrible shit that was happening in their lives at the time, the first seeds of SNW were the resolution of that period; when their expression of the various issues had become more precise. They knew exactly what was up by that point. Yet at the same time, their thirst for escapism started providing a nice contrast. Particularly 'Buffalo', which from the sounds of things (namely the few audible lyrics), is the death knell of Chino and Celeste: very likely the main reason that Chino 'doesn't want to' put lyrics to it and finalise it.

Most of what made it onto SNW I think was overly processed, and downright empty, the band referencing sounds of other bands/artists that they liked rather than being themselves. I think its obvious that the band lost complete sight of the vision of what was supposed to be 'Saturday Night Wrist'. Maybe there never was any clarity; I'd find that plausible of a statement of confusion. Very few of the resulting songs on SNW are evocative of that initial mood you get when listening to the older demos, or indeed the SNW concept. I think that the escapism took over whatever meaningful aspirations the band initially had for the album, which led to stuff like 'Rapture', 'Mein' and 'Xerces' taking precedence over better, potentially more heartfelt material. Sure, different people like how 'Mein' ended up and whatever, as individual songs, but how on Earth does 'Mein' fit in with the mood of 'Saturday Night Wrist'? Considering stuff like 'Beware', 'Buffalo', and 'Cherry Waves', this was conceptually just as dark an album as S/T. Though, its a darkness I don't think they were able to confront in the end.

Chino leaving for Team Sleep, the album taking so long, the band almost not wanting to finish the album or indeed carry on as a band... they pretty obviously lost their direction and passion. As a result, I think that they delivered an album which was vague without purpose, unexciting and lacking any of the heart that Deftones suddenly injected into S/T, elevating their music to a new height. That was what was really important about S/T. They couldn't afford to miss that out with SNW, but they did.

I think that elements of what were meant to be, had naturally carried over, obviously, because the same songs are essentially in a portion of the demos. That said, I think those songs lost that magical quality they had in their conception. Particularly in the ways in which the album tracks ended up reacting with each other, and their lack of cohesion. For instance, that subversive, exploration of whatthefuckever that was supposed to be present in 'Pink Cellphone', ended up being the usual, token electronic track (given the rest of the album/direction), like the band had fallen to the formulaic. In contrast, the brooding inference, mood or desperation that 'Lucky You' has, 'PC' has nothing on that level. It just plain falls flat as an 'experiment' with some profanity tagged on the end, but it couldn't be any less of an experiment given what we know these guys are capable of.

As for the Ezrin material, Demos 5, 7, 9, 7, 12, 13 and 15 I think were a perfect direction for them to be heading in. The initial bones of stuff like 'Beware', 'Cherry Waves' and 'Combat' were all in the same vein, but they ended up giving them horrible treatments by the time it was finished. SNW just doesn't have any soul from what I hear.

If I were to be basic about it: it ended up too influenced by Chino's time with Team Sleep; it had Chino's worst lyrics to date, especially 'Rapture'; the production is good, but its... wrong. SNW sounds crisp, polished, poppy and clean, but it should be more like sticky nightclub/light sleeping sweat and the hybridisation of beer and dust on a dance floor; the album pulls the listener in many directions, but its largely unintentional - the vague nature of the album being less a controlled effort and more that the band became caught up in it.

[Starz]

That was a very good read, thank you for that. I feel entirely the same way about Saturday Night Wrist too.

[yui_akuma]

I think the Deftones prove themselves each album. Everytime people try to write them off, they hit people with something AMAZING! They have made it COOL to have a left-field sound. Deftones are the elephants in the room. Deftones get major respect from the metal bands, alternative bands, punk bands, rappers and etc. White Pony is a classic in my opinion. White Pony saved my life. I had the hardest time in high school and I was ready to give up and take my life. White Pony inspired me to write (again) live and love life. As for the other albums, no they don't have the same inpact as White Pony, but what band hasn't done that. Ex: Linkin Park (Hybrid Theory), Korn (Issues), Slipknot (self-titled), System Of A Down (Toxicity), Stone Temple Pilots (Core), Evanescence (Fallen), Limp Bizkit (Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog Flavored Water or Significant Other). So to answer the question............NO!

[jesusinabowlofdirt]

white pony saved your life? well snw almost made me take my own life

[wither-I]

As for the Ezrin material, Demos 5, 7, 9, 7, 12, 13 and 15 I think were a perfect direction for them to be heading in. The initial bones of stuff like 'Beware', 'Cherry Waves' and 'Combat' were all in the same vein, but they ended up giving them horrible treatments by the time it was finished. SNW just doesn't have any soul from what I hear.

it had Chino's worst lyrics to date, especially 'Rapture'; the production is good, but its... wrong. SNW sounds crisp, polished, poppy and clean, but it should be more like sticky nightclub/light sleeping sweat and the hybridisation of beer and dust on a dance floor; the album pulls the listener in many directions, but its largely unintentional - the vague nature of the album being less a controlled effort and more that the band became caught up in it.

all hail the ezrin demos.

all hail this post.

bless.

[rainnyx4]

I loved the Ezrin stuff, and I think material like 'Buffalo' was evocative of a post-S/T creative peak. I think if S/T was them going through the motions of all or any horrible shit that was happening in their lives at the time, the first seeds of SNW were the resolution of that period; when their expression of the various issues had become more precise. They knew exactly what was up by that point. Yet at the same time, their thirst for escapism started providing a nice contrast. Particularly 'Buffalo', which from the sounds of things (namely the few audible lyrics), is the death knell of Chino and Celeste: very likely the main reason that Chino 'doesn't want to' put lyrics to it and finalise it.

Most of what made it onto SNW I think was overly processed, and downright empty, the band referencing sounds of other bands/artists that they liked rather than being themselves. I think its obvious that the band lost complete sight of the vision of what was supposed to be 'Saturday Night Wrist'. Maybe there never was any clarity; I'd find that plausible of a statement of confusion. Very few of the resulting songs on SNW are evocative of that initial mood you get when listening to the older demos, or indeed the SNW concept. I think that the escapism took over whatever meaningful aspirations the band initially had for the album, which led to stuff like 'Rapture', 'Mein' and 'Xerces' taking precedence over better, potentially more heartfelt material. Sure, different people like how 'Mein' ended up and whatever, as individual songs, but how on Earth does 'Mein' fit in with the mood of 'Saturday Night Wrist'? Considering stuff like 'Beware', 'Buffalo', and 'Cherry Waves', this was conceptually just as dark an album as S/T. Though, its a darkness I don't think they were able to confront in the end.

Chino leaving for Team Sleep, the album taking so long, the band almost not wanting to finish the album or indeed carry on as a band... they pretty obviously lost their direction and passion. As a result, I think that they delivered an album which was vague without purpose, unexciting and lacking any of the heart that Deftones suddenly injected into S/T, elevating their music to a new height. That was what was really important about S/T. They couldn't afford to miss that out with SNW, but they did.

I think that elements of what were meant to be, had naturally carried over, obviously, because the same songs are essentially in a portion of the demos. That said, I think those songs lost that magical quality they had in their conception. Particularly in the ways in which the album tracks ended up reacting with each other, and their lack of cohesion. For instance, that subversive, exploration of whatthefuckever that was supposed to be present in 'Pink Cellphone', ended up being the usual, token electronic track (given the rest of the album/direction), like the band had fallen to the formulaic. In contrast, the brooding inference, mood or desperation that 'Lucky You' has, 'PC' has nothing on that level. It just plain falls flat as an 'experiment' with some profanity tagged on the end, but it couldn't be any less of an experiment given what we know these guys are capable of.

As for the Ezrin material, Demos 5, 7, 9, 7, 12, 13 and 15 I think were a perfect direction for them to be heading in. The initial bones of stuff like 'Beware', 'Cherry Waves' and 'Combat' were all in the same vein, but they ended up giving them horrible treatments by the time it was finished. SNW just doesn't have any soul from what I hear.

If I were to be basic about it: it ended up too influenced by Chino's time with Team Sleep; it had Chino's worst lyrics to date, especially 'Rapture'; the production is good, but its... wrong. SNW sounds crisp, polished, poppy and clean, but it should be more like sticky nightclub/light sleeping sweat and the hybridisation of beer and dust on a dance floor; the album pulls the listener in many directions, but its largely unintentional - the vague nature of the album being less a controlled effort and more that the band became caught up in it.

NO.

[Jerry_Curls]

Yes.

[Inkblades]

I loved the Ezrin stuff, and I think material like 'Buffalo' was evocative of a post-S/T creative peak. I think if S/T was them going through the motions of all or any horrible shit that was happening in their lives at the time, the first seeds of SNW were the resolution of that period; when their expression of the various issues had become more precise. They knew exactly what was up by that point. Yet at the same time, their thirst for escapism started providing a nice contrast. Particularly 'Buffalo', which from the sounds of things (namely the few audible lyrics), is the death knell of Chino and Celeste: very likely the main reason that Chino 'doesn't want to' put lyrics to it and finalise it.

Most of what made it onto SNW I think was overly processed, and downright empty, the band referencing sounds of other bands/artists that they liked rather than being themselves. I think its obvious that the band lost complete sight of the vision of what was supposed to be 'Saturday Night Wrist'. Maybe there never was any clarity; I'd find that plausible of a statement of confusion. Very few of the resulting songs on SNW are evocative of that initial mood you get when listening to the older demos, or indeed the SNW concept. I think that the escapism took over whatever meaningful aspirations the band initially had for the album, which led to stuff like 'Rapture', 'Mein' and 'Xerces' taking precedence over better, potentially more heartfelt material. Sure, different people like how 'Mein' ended up and whatever, as individual songs, but how on Earth does 'Mein' fit in with the mood of 'Saturday Night Wrist'? Considering stuff like 'Beware', 'Buffalo', and 'Cherry Waves', this was conceptually just as dark an album as S/T. Though, its a darkness I don't think they were able to confront in the end.

Chino leaving for Team Sleep, the album taking so long, the band almost not wanting to finish the album or indeed carry on as a band... they pretty obviously lost their direction and passion. As a result, I think that they delivered an album which was vague without purpose, unexciting and lacking any of the heart that Deftones suddenly injected into S/T, elevating their music to a new height. That was what was really important about S/T. They couldn't afford to miss that out with SNW, but they did.

I think that elements of what were meant to be, had naturally carried over, obviously, because the same songs are essentially in a portion of the demos. That said, I think those songs lost that magical quality they had in their conception. Particularly in the ways in which the album tracks ended up reacting with each other, and their lack of cohesion. For instance, that subversive, exploration of whatthefuckever that was supposed to be present in 'Pink Cellphone', ended up being the usual, token electronic track (given the rest of the album/direction), like the band had fallen to the formulaic. In contrast, the brooding inference, mood or desperation that 'Lucky You' has, 'PC' has nothing on that level. It just plain falls flat as an 'experiment' with some profanity tagged on the end, but it couldn't be any less of an experiment given what we know these guys are capable of.

As for the Ezrin material, Demos 5, 7, 9, 7, 12, 13 and 15 I think were a perfect direction for them to be heading in. The initial bones of stuff like 'Beware', 'Cherry Waves' and 'Combat' were all in the same vein, but they ended up giving them horrible treatments by the time it was finished. SNW just doesn't have any soul from what I hear.

If I were to be basic about it: it ended up too influenced by Chino's time with Team Sleep; it had Chino's worst lyrics to date, especially 'Rapture'; the production is good, but its... wrong. SNW sounds crisp, polished, poppy and clean, but it should be more like sticky nightclub/light sleeping sweat and the hybridisation of beer and dust on a dance floor; the album pulls the listener in many directions, but its largely unintentional - the vague nature of the album being less a controlled effort and more that the band became caught up in it.

Epic post (although I'll respectfully disagree about Cherry Waves).

[Inkblades]

ignore this post.

[Cod]

I think someone said it but My only beef is with SNW is that you can tell Team Sleep influenced it quite a bit