Black Metal: The Red Headed Stepchild of Extreme Metal

[oldgentlovecraft]

I've been on the board for some time and I've noticed the extreme opposing viewpoints when it comes to black metal.  Discussions pop up often and although there are, or at least there seem to be, quite a few heavy metal fans here supporters of BM are few and far between.  I'm creating this thread so that we can have a gloves off discussion about all things BM: Satanism, crimes, philosophy, musicianship, popularity.  For me it's the most balls out, ugly, raw form of metal and demands my utmost respect.  I know there are quite a few haters out there and I want anyone who has an opinion to jump in give it Hell.  Let's have an intelligent yet unrestrained discussion of the red headed stepchild of extreme music.

[bright lights, big city]

I'm with you...now. I'm a metalhead, but I used to hate everything black metal sounded and stood for. that was a couple years when i first heard cradle of filth (who i still despise).
BUT, today, everything has sort of bridged me into new genres. at first it more melodic metal, then it classic metal, power metal, hardcore/metalcore, then death metal (death metal/deathcore still being my favorite type of heavy music). but a couple months, a buddy of mine made me listen to Behemoth.
Let's just say i was instantly hooked on the Demigod CD. the song "reign ov shemsu" is just fucking brilliant. i now have almost the whole behemoth discography, and have gotten into other awesome bands like Burzum, Destinity, and Darkthrone.

so uhhh yeah, guess I just wanted to say i liked black metal now. just like you.

what are some other great black metal bands?? or more modern era black metal?

[bright lights, big city]

sorry double post.
BM really should be examined more closely. people hear the word satanism, and are instantly turned off. BM definitely has a bad stigma to it that shouldnt be.
(aside from all the murder and church burnings)

[oldgentlovecraft]

I'm finding that some of the older black metal is actually a bit better.  I think that the concept behind black metal was originally to be underground, anti-popular and therefore I find myself leaning towards demos and low production.  Good, newer black metal for me would be Deathspell Omega, Blut Aus Nord, Xasthur or Leviathan.  There are a lot out there but they are in my favorites.  For older style BM try Von, Hell Rot, Beherit.   

If you like Behemoth, the mix of death and black, you should try Akercocke (I cannot praise these guys enough), Anaal Nathrakh, Hecate Enthroned, Impaled Nazarene, etc.  As far as Satanism goes there is a distinct separation of Theistic and Philosophical Satanism and I've found that quite often Death Metal bands lean more toward the theistic side of things whereas Black Metal tends to be more philosophical. 

[bright lights, big city]

As far as Satanism goes there is a distinct separation of Theistic and Philosophical Satanism and I've found that quite often Death Metal bands lean more toward the theistic side of things whereas Black Metal tends to be more philosophical. 

thanks for suggestion! and about the satanism thing, I couldn't have said that any better myself, sir.

[whodunit?]

but a couple months, a buddy of mine made me listen to Behemoth.
Let's just say i was instantly hooked on the Demigod CD. the song "reign ov shemsu" is just fucking brilliant. i now have almost the whole behemoth discography, and

high5!

[Jacob]

I haven't listened too much to black metal but I like what I've heard from bands like Burzum, Emperor, Anaal Nathrakh etc. I used to listen to Dimmu Borgir and while I still think they're good I don't really consider them "true" black metal. I don't really care about all the satanism, murder and whatever it is they're into. as long as the music is good I'm liking it. it's not like I'm buying their albums to support them economically anyway.

[oldgentlovecraft]

Yeah, I'm a huge Cradle of Filth fan but what they have evolved into is by no way black metal anymore.  It's the same with bands like Ulver and Arcturus, who had more a traditional sound (especially Ulver's trilogy of albums) and then became more experimental.  Anyone here like Old Man's Child?

[oldgentlovecraft]

I should change this to "BM: The Red Headed Stepchild thread of Sharing Lungs"

[4th Eye]

I don't really care about all the satanism, murder and whatever it is they're into. as long as the music is good I'm liking it. it's not like I'm buying their albums to support them economically anyway.

Same here. Though usually lyrics are also a big part of music for me, I don't really care about them in black metal nor death metal (for example Cannibal Corpse and such). It's the music that counts and I think the black metal artists know how to play their instruments.

Anyone here like Old Man's Child?

Yep, been listening to their album "Vermin" quite a lot. Probably should get more.


Btw...gonna see Borgir and Behemoth this summer.

[oldgentlovecraft]

Lucky!  I saw Behemoth at Ozzfest last year and it was awesome!  Haven't heard much Dimmu honestly, just newer material.  I like older bm or experimental stuff personally.

[whodunit?]

Lucky!  I saw Behemoth at Ozzfest last year and it was awesome!

Lucky bastard! The next day the played near my place I had an exam so I couldn't go to see them. 

[oldgentlovecraft]

Saw them and Nile, got owned in the pit and it was fucking awesome.

[wither-I]

i despise what these people stand for, philosophically you say. its all rubbish and immaturity. they prob have never experienced true loss or true love in that matter. i forgive them and pray they may someday be loved. love love love. spread it. they are well inclined to their instruments though, true mastery-it would be amazing to see what they could do if they focused all of that creative energy to more positive extents to human nature and faith...

[oldgentlovecraft]

I'm glad that somebody said that.  It really depends on what bands you are listening to.  Older black metal was centered around pissed off youth who took their ideas to the extreme.  However, I disagree about the love, human nature and faith.  If their ideas changed in any way then we wouldn't have such beautifully raw and angry music and for most Satanists faith already exists for the self.  Do you despise Satanism or just the physical acts of violence?  I disagree with the violence but find that much of what black metal bands are trying to convey is rebellion against the norm.  That's what most metal is trying to do and yeah the problem is that a lot of fans turn it into a trend that ruins it for everyone else.  I've read numerous interviews with bm musicians where they admitted that the lyrics were nothing more than fantasy and shouldn't be taken as anything else.  The true Norwegian Black Metal bands were basically anarchists and nihilists that posed as "evil" to sell music and make a name.  Now, there is so much variety and much more philosophy that the old dogma no longer exists or is only from a handful of bands. 

[goldpony]

The following illustrates why i cant listen to black metal. it gets really absurd at times and i have a real hard time taking the music, not the lyrics, seriously

[theis]

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

So ridiculous.

[goldpony]

the best part is that i just typed in black metal in google image search and those were the first things to come up

[oldgentlovecraft]

Lol nice find.  Check these out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGZmh2eo8g4

A few parodies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvsq6_8Hzo8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo3mDaiwNQk&feature=related

Already posted this but it's fucking funny and makes bm fans look like morons lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjnL63Aqxhk

[wither-I]

I'm glad that somebody said that.  It really depends on what bands you are listening to.  Older black metal was centered around pissed off youth who took their ideas to the extreme.  However, I disagree about the love, human nature and faith.  If their ideas changed in any way then we wouldn't have such beautifully raw and angry music and for most Satanists faith already exists for the self.  Do you despise Satanism or just the physical acts of violence?  I disagree with the violence but find that much of what black metal bands are trying to convey is rebellion against the norm.  That's what most metal is trying to do and yeah the problem is that a lot of fans turn it into a trend that ruins it for everyone else.  I've read numerous interviews with bm musicians where they admitted that the lyrics were nothing more than fantasy and shouldn't be taken as anything else.  The true Norwegian Black Metal bands were basically anarchists and nihilists that posed as "evil" to sell music and make a name.  Now, there is so much variety and much more philosophy that the old dogma no longer exists or is only from a handful of bands. 

your a premier member of this board. very sturdy. i like your style man. im not keen on the "physical violence" aspect. its a horrible thing and is the ruin of man. and concerning the fantasy realm- ive been there myself and it IS good to release/get out, but in order not to supress one will opress unto another and that is wrong. the one thing ive gathered is that, "the norm" or whatever one will call it, is perception of the external, the view -(a biased one at that)- to an individual, being a part to the whole, and the whole being the sum of its parts (individuals); is gathered as a common, when in commonality -one is distinct only to another commoner (basically a misperception to the rule). i know it sounds abstract and possibly nonsensical, but what im trying to say, in layman's terms, is that you really cannot percieve "against" - "one"(an individual) or a "whole"(society/norm/etc etc) unless you have retained that exact position (and that is impossible and inadequate). its basically saying "until you have walked in one's shoes can you really preside a true judgement. maybe i have too much compassion, but you must take in affect-everyones own distinct trials are according to their own perception and not "your's"(allegorical). for what one will see in life,  even eveyday, may be completely different to another, and this should not be condemned... its a hard thing to grasp because "we" all base our position to the denoument of another (natural heirarchies). its all philosophy in the end, but i have my stand and that is of love for "all", and what i mean in faith is- faith in "all"- as i really know nothing for sure, so "all" may well be all i have. trust and faith in another. and the whole theme of the BM philosophies as i have have taken it are seperatist and faithless. they see themselves "outside" and "above" the "all". which is all just perception in the end. and as i sense that "we"(allegorical)- really do know nothing for sure- how can we procure position and opposition until we "know". everything is angled and biased- turned by gravity of perception. and i believe once you abase yourself, and reach commonality with "all", you will reach the core and become stabalized in love. love for "all" is faith. and faith relies on "me". here: i wrote this earlier; i write without keen notice and love as a novice, my passion will never die as i am never sure of anything at all.
my purpose is beyond my perception and my power of will  exceeds beyond my eyes as they fall beneath my feet. this world is priceless- and we are the greater shades of chaos-obscene as we are green. nothing makes sense and noone knows it. sloping parallels of abject consciences. without me God is but energy-and without energy i have no motive-where inertia meets desire-i will LOVE-and this is my power. [faith ] relies on [me]


kinda rambled, i know lol.