Gunman kills five at U.S. university

[Shaye]

Hello people, Alcohol and Guns are not the same kind of things... Guns FUCKING KILL people (ok so does alcohol, but timeframe might be slightly different...)

We are fucking talking about free availibility of objects used to kill each other... Don't fucking act like it's normal, just in case you need to fucking defend yourself from something... You americans are way too paranoid...

Guns don't fire themselves.  If you take away guns people are just going to find something else to commit crimes with.  Hell maybe we should just so people have to get a bit more creative.  I can't wait to see the day when crazy militia fucks run around with chainsaws instead of assault rifles.

Haha. Just look at the shit prison inmates use as weapons, and resources are much more limited to them than any free citizen. A human can kill another with a shoelace if he/she wanted to. Granted, it's easier to fight off someone with a shoelace, than to dodge bullets. Still, while I agree that obtaining a firearm should be tougher and more resticted, I just think a ban would be impossible to enforce. But who knows?

[tarkil]

I can't wait to see the day when crazy militia fucks run around with chainsaws instead of assault rifles.

Well at least it's fun... 
Plus I'm way less scared of someone with a 20 kgs chainsaw than with a gun...

[goldpony]

i was watching future weapons last night and i saw a taser that can be fired out of a shotgun. it was awesome. and remember

[kreepercamikaze]

Banning guns won't stop people from getting them.

Actually yes.... It will be waaaaaaaay harder, and therefore only accessible to a tiny tiny little minority of people...

I think its fine to have a gun for protection

Out of curiosity, protection against what ?

No. Banning something does not make it impossible to get, if there was a ban set at this point, it would be pretty much useless because of the weapons people already have at this point. What are they going to do? Confiscate every gun from every registered gun owner in the country? Even then, people owning guns illegally would still have them, and illegal gun owners out number legal gun owners by miles. Besides if someone wants to kill someone else, they'll find a way to do it, gun or no gun.

My mother owns a handgun for protection from 2 of her homicidal ex's. One of which held her hostage at knife point and attempted to beat her to death after she moved halfway across the country to get away from him and he tracked her down. If the neighbors had not have called the police she would have been killed. She did not own a gun at the time and did not believe in carrying one and was a strict supporter of gun control before then. Lets just say a few experiences changed her mind a bit, as well as my own.

[Variable]

ok tarkil.  Lets break this down k.  I have thought about this for a really long time.  But it does not seem that you have.

1st.  Banning something does not make it impossible to get.  Pot is illegal in the US and most of the world.  But ill bet that 99% of this board will smoke some today.  Prohibition is a great example of what happens when you make something illegal in America.  And it would not stop the crimes.  My point was simply that saying a law against weapons would stop people from purchasing weapons is the same as saying a law against murder would stop murder.  It just does not make any sense.

2nd.  The problem is not with the weapons, its with the people.  If you look at most criminal shootings.  They are not done with registered weapons.  They are done with weapons that were purchased illegally.  So that means that  if you are a law abiding citizen and just want a gun, and you go through all the legal hoops to get this gun, then you are less likely to break the law.  However those people with no respect for the law no only get guns illegally, but they also use them in a criminal manner.  So simple logic will tell you that if you made a law banning guns.  The law abiding citizens would obey, but the assholes who didnt care about any other law will still purchase fire arms and still commit crimes with them. 

3rd.  I understand what you are trying to say about if there were less guns available.  It would be much harder to obtain them, thus crime would go down.   Um, no.  Not in the US anyways.  Ever seen Lord of War?  I mean you could count on about 1000 other guys like him providing weapons to Americans who wanted them.  Guaranteed.  Because where there is money to be made, people will go.  Just like the drug trade.  Not to mention that the military and Law enforcement agents would still have to be armed.  So now just to be a cop  you would have to worry about some cracked out ass hole breaking into your house and holding a knife to your kids throat just so that he could get your 9mm to go rob a 711.....what a wonderful world.

4th.  IT is a proven fact that criminals will take a soft target over a hard target given the choice.  Ill use a popular piece of fiction to illistrate this.  Pulp Fiction.  The opening scene.  We have two armed criminals who are planning a robery.  Now they are in a restaurant and realize that most normal people do not carry a weapon with them to breakfast.  And most restaurants do not have armed guards.  Hmmm, easy target.  So they try to rob it.  However everyones favorie disco dancer and mother fucking black man were armed.  And they mannaged to secure their property because of it.  I mean think about it.  If you are really hard up for money and you are going to rob someone.  YOu see me on one street corner and goldpony on the other.  You know that there is a good chance that I have a .45 tucked into my back.  And you know that there is a good chance that the only thing goldpony has on him is a snickers.  Who are you going to go after?  So the point is that if there is a ban on firearms.  Criminals will KNOW that the majority of citizens will not be armed.  Makes for a much easier day for the bad guys.

5th.  You asked "protection from what?"  well us americans are not so paranoid.  There are a lot of violent crimes in america.  And I feel that I should have the right to defend myself.  Such as if someone in the class room had been carrying a firearm that day, maybe the gun man would have dropped before he could even get 3 shots off.  Who knows?  But schools are popular targets because people know that it is illegal to carry fire arms on campus.  Hmmmm violent crimes in places where weapons are banned....hmmmmm

6th.  Ill get one thing clear.  I am not against gun control.  But the problem with gun control in America, just like every other problem in america.  Is that we have two extreme majorities.  One who wants all weapons gone , and the other that wants all to be leagal. And each side thinks that if they let up even a little bit, that it is a slippery slope and they will lose the cause all together.  People just need to fucking grow up and learn to compromise.  No not everyone needs 50 caliber sniper rifles.  No not everyone needs a m4 or ak47.  Not fully auto anyways.  But I dont see anything wrong with allowing people to own hunting rifles and shot guns.  Even conceled hand guns for protection.  But like I said, people have to grow up.

7th. Someone nailed it on the head.  This would never work in America.  Every culture has their stereotypes.  Ours is that we are gun slinging ass holes who fight people just for the hell of it.  We are a gun culture to our roots.  And thats that.  It will never change. 

hope that helps to show why im not so crazy and stupid.

[Shaye]

^^ Bravo.

[goldpony]

  YOu see me on one street corner and goldpony on the other.  You know that there is a good chance that I have a .45 tucked into my back.  And you know that there is a good chance that the only thing goldpony has on him is a snickers.  Who are you going to go after? 

i will fuck some fuckers up with a snickers, beyotch

[Shaye]

  YOu see me on one street corner and goldpony on the other.  You know that there is a good chance that I have a .45 tucked into my back.  And you know that there is a good chance that the only thing goldpony has on him is a snickers.  Who are you going to go after? 

i will fuck some fuckers up with a snickers, beyotch

Well I just found my SL members quote of the day...

[alvarezbassist17]

1st.  Banning something does not make it impossible to get.  Pot is illegal in the US and most of the world.  But ill bet that 99% of this board will smoke some today. 

will and have

[goldpony]

1st.  Banning something does not make it impossible to get.  Pot is illegal in the US and most of the world.  But ill bet that 99% of this board will smoke some today. 

will and have

+1

[tarkil]

Variable, thanks for your effort...

Unfortunately I'm too lazy to do the same kind of thing as written arguing sucks cocks in my book...
So I'll be brief, and just precise my thoughts on this quickly.

Indeed, you do sound less crazy and stupid.

Thing is I do agree with you : banning guns wouldn't work in the US. That's obvious seeing that everyone and their mother already have a gun, and is used to it...

I was more talking about an "abstract" state of things : having guns distributed freely => more criminality. As simple as that.

Couple of things :

us americans are not so paranoid.

So now just to be a cop  you would have to worry about some cracked out ass hole breaking into your house and holding a knife to your kids throat just so that he could get your 9mm to go rob a 711.....what a wonderful world.

-> I never feared having a crackhead breaking into my house to threaten me ever... And never will.
For real you guys are paranoid... Nothing bad with that, I guess that if I was leaving in a place where I know everyone has the ability to erase me from earth in a second, I guess I'd be
the same. Even if you don't feel it, I swear man, you guys do live in a fear mind state.

Sorry I'm really too lazy to really develop more than that, I wish we were talking about that around some nice vodka, then I'd be fully motivated, but arguing over the internet just sucks man...


Oh, and last thing : not having guns available everywhere works in every other country of the world...

[alvarezbassist17]

that's just cuz you guys don't have the second amendment, duh

[Variable]

-> I never feared having a crackhead breaking into my house to threaten me ever... And never will.
For real you guys are paranoid... Nothing bad with that, I guess that if I was leaving in a place where I know everyone has the ability to erase me from earth in a second, I guess I'd be
the same. Even if you don't feel it, I swear man, you guys do live in a fear mind state.

Stories a lot crazier than that have happened close to my house. And I lived in nice neighborhoods.  But if you ban guns and a desperate individual wants a gun.  They will know where to find them.  Thats asking a lot of public defenders.

Sorry I'm really too lazy to really develop more than that, I wish we were talking about that around some nice vodka, then I'd be fully motivated, but arguing over the internet just sucks man...

and word to that man.  Im sure we would all sound way more intelligent if we were actually in person and we would all probably be having a lot more fun if we had a bottle of vodka.

but as far as banning guns in other parts of the world "working"  I have seen contradicting reports on that.  The NRA says that crime has sky rocketed everywhere that guns have been banned.  Then some crazy liberal "we want all weapons on earth melted and turned into hood ordainments in the shape of a peace sign" group says that its 100% crime free now that guns are gone.  So I mean I really dont know what to believe

[13hourstoparadise]

Trey, well put....

Guns in the wrong hands are, well, in the wrong hands. Simple. The fucking NRA needs to stop preaching fear. I hate guns and war of all forms.

Both of my shoulders are tattoo'd with broken general stars. If I was drafted I would not fire a single shot and I would proudly die knowing I never aimed to kill an innocient person... However, if I was placed in that situation I'm sure my outlook would be the polar oppisite.

I owned a gun for two weeks. I drive an M3 and some drunk fucks in seattle jay walked and called me a yuppy faggot. First I have a temper, second, I'm 6'2 and love to get into fist fights. But this night I stopped so quick to avoid these kids that the 9mm hit me in the back of the heels... I played off the name calling when one dude lifted his arms to smack my hood. I got out of my car with the 9mm and told at least 6 or 7 of the drunk fucks to line againist the wall. I told them they were luckey that the gun isn't loaded and I wasn't crazy enough to kill them. I told them to learn from their mistake... I think one of the shit his pants. Anyway, a cop drove by, I got in my car and 7 miles later off the exit I was arrested. Luckey for me those kids (well, they were not kids, mid 20's) got in a cab so I was let go after spending 6 hours in a holding cell....

To sum it up, I'm not one to hold a gun, wrong hands.... Point should be taken. Trey obviously is trained, and I respect that, now him choking to death is well, his dumbass... Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[spitfire]

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

oh well read all this replies, still no one can argue against statistics


@ Variable you say that every citizen should have a gun to be protected against thiefs. just a suggestion then, maybe police departments should be extinguished, so we can all secure maximum security with automatic guns.

america strange land

[Variable]

Trey, well put....

Guns in the wrong hands are, well, in the wrong hands. Simple. The fucking NRA needs to stop preaching fear. I hate guns and war of all forms.

Both of my shoulders are tattoo'd with broken general stars. If I was drafted I would not fire a single shot and I would proudly die knowing I never aimed to kill an innocient person... However, if I was placed in that situation I'm sure my outlook would be the polar oppisite.

To sum it up, I'm not one to hold a gun, wrong hands.... Point should be taken. Trey obviously is trained, and I respect that, now him choking to death is well, his dumbass... Sorry, I couldn't resist.

the line of who is and who is not innocent is very blurred, or maybe subjective is a better word.  But contrary to popular belief the US military is very disciplined when it comes to shooting.  Thousands of time a day the US does not shoot some stupid fucker who is being stupid.  But the one time a year that something shady happens our judgement gets called out.  Its bull shit.  And I mean to each his own, but im not calling anyone who is shooting at me innocent.  and ill be god dammed if I am going to let someone shoot me without a fight.  And I have a feeling you are the same way.  You just need to get away from those dam hippies

and you know what im convinced that I will die by choking.  That shit has happened like 6 more times to me.  I think something is wrong with me but I mean working in medical, then going to medical for help.  It just doesn't fit well.  Ill ride it out.

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

oh well read all this replies, still no one can argue against statistics


@ Variable you say that every citizen should have a gun to be protected against thiefs. just a suggestion then, maybe police departments should be extinguished, so we can all secure maximum security with automatic guns.

america strange land

well that's one site supporting a ban on guns.  Im sure if I had the time I could fine 5 more with stats that say violent crimes go up when you ban guns.  Ask any statistician (or whatever you call guys who make stats) You can make the numbers say whatever you want.

and I would like you to quote me where I said everyone should own a gun.  Because im almost positive that I did not. I also specifically said that I dont think automatic weapons should necessarily be legal.  I believe police SHOULD have superior weapons than the public.  However cops are not always right there at the time you need defense.  At that point, I dont see a problem with a person holding a concealed to carry licence having a gun tucked away. 

if you want to throw some stats around.  Find out how many violent crimes were committed with automatic weapons last year in the US.  I know off the top of my head that zero crimes were committed with 50 caliber weapons.  But for some reason everyone is calling for a ban on them. The ban on weapons is just as largely based on fear as the NRAs call to keep them legal.

also if you want to throw stats out check out how many of those violent crimes were committed by registered weapons.  You will find that most people who go through the trouble of following the rules to purchase a weapon, continue to follow the rules after they purchase the weapon.  Proving that criminals purchase the weapons illegally, and use them to committee crimes.  So why would you think that they would stop just because of a new crime?
also you can look up that some of the highest murder rates happen in state penitentiaries where there are no firearms available to the inmates.  Further proving that a criminal will act as a criminal regardless of the resources available to him or her.

I guess America is strange because a lot of us continue to still make our decisions based on reason?

[devilinside]

I have no problems with guns if they are used for the right reasons. I have a pistol in the top of my closet where my kids cant reach,and have never seen it,and a rifle or two also. I would only use the pistol if someone were to break in my house and its just me and my kids here. You enter my house and I dont know you,I'll shoot you.
My children are well educated as far as guns go,my son has a bb gun and KNOWS to keep the safety on when not shooting it. I think if you have guns,you need to inform your kids,and teach them that they are not toys,and not intended to hurt people. I've grown up around guns of all sorts,and never shot up a school. You just gotta be smart about it.

[Variable]

IYou enter my house and I dont know you,I'll shoot you.

gets a woody


I have to really remember that everyone is not as crazy as me when it comes to issues like this.  If it were up to me we would all be living in the wild west again.  Gun slinging mother fuckers. Buy of course I know this is not the best for the greater good.  So I try to level my head before I speak.

you are right though.  The people I know that grew up around guns and were educated with them and saw what the were really capable of were not running around with them trying to prove how big of a man they were by killing some other kid on the block.  Education is huge.  Well put mrs kelly

[deafnotes]

why americans love guns

[tarkil]

why americans love guns

Why are you stupid ?
Some questions will actually never have answers...