I've just finished up my first listen of the new record. Always a main event, personally. It's difficult to form a concrete opinion on it after only one listen. It takes time for me to get familiar with it. I enjoyed it though, definitely. I love everything they do.
If there's one thing that I'm maybe not entirely fapping over, it's his voice. Chino is an excellent vocalist, obviously. And yeah, his voice has been discussed to death for obvious reasons over the years. But it feels like every album he tries to be more of a real singer, whilst his voice gets weaker with time. I still like it, but it doesn't sound like it's strong enough for what he's trying to do.
It still sounds great to me but I can't help but wonder what people listening to this band for the first time must think. Does he sound weak vocally and do I just ignore it, knowing the various issues he's had, vocally? It's hard to explain.
To be honest, this is the only thing ppl are tlking about that I dont really understand. What, that he's tryna sing more? I dont know, that sounds weird to me, I guess I havent really listened to any of their albums and had those thoughts come to me. I dont know, it doesnt sound weak to me, but I guess I'm unobservant lol. His voice is different than it was on their earlier albums of course, but I'd expect that.
A lot of it is to do with the production but yeah, I guess it's that he's trying to sing more. He has on each album but he's always sounded better using it as another instrument instead of singing over everything, if that makes sense. I mean, he ain't fucking Whitney Houston and he's not trying to be. It just sits kinda funny with me. It doesn't take away from anything. It works with what they're doing. But it's on my mind when I listen to this record and Diamond Eyes. Like he's trying to do something he can't quite physically do. Not how he'd like to.
Chino is the ONLY singer who can sing off key and make it sound cool. I think what everyone is getting at is how "polished" it sounds and not gutter or raw.
Take their ST album for instance, that was raw emotion, chino didn't give a fuck, he sang like he wanted to. I think this producer was obsessed with him hitting it perfectly, hence why he will have a miserable time with songs like Entombed and Gauze when they do them live. I dig the album, ALOT. But I prefer the gutter style Chino.
Quote from: optemoz on Nov 08, 2012, 04:11 AM
Chino is the ONLY singer who can sing off key and make it sound cool. I think what everyone is getting at is how "polished" it sounds and not gutter or raw.
he's not the only one at all. but you might totally disagree with my choices
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 08, 2012, 03:38 AM...
Agreed.
Quote from: optemoz on Nov 08, 2012, 04:11 AMChino is the ONLY singer who can sing off key and make it sound cool. I think what everyone is getting at is how "polished" it sounds and not gutter or raw.
Damn straight. Ive heard performances before where his voice will crack while hes singing softly and it will still sound beautiful and gentle and yet somehow haunting.
Now it sounds like hes a bit of a perfectionist because his high vocal range has almost seemed to go up. His voice seems to have less fullness and youth to it which makes sense considering the circumstances. But some of the vocals he tries to pull of in "Leathers" and "Romantic Dreams" are not really necessary. They don't need to sound so high and forced.
I think that Chino is capable to sing, he has a great voice range, and no, he is not Whitney Houston, but is a great singer, and is obvious that he is changing his style, maybe you like it, maybe not, but i think he is a good singer, not only a good "metal singer" / "rock singer"...
Maybe is because i love his voice tone...i don't know, maybe i'm a blind fanboy ?!?
he's better now although he's not "RAW" as before, which i loved most. that's good for the band, cuz chino's vocal maybe more accepted by most of people and help to make new listener and fans too, i guess..
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 08, 2012, 01:27 PM...
Because he's gotta have ambitions, haha. Nah, I dont know either but ah well.
Quote from: optemoz on Nov 08, 2012, 04:11 AM
Chino is the ONLY singer who can sing off key and make it sound cool.
pffft.....
Peter Steele, Billy Corgan, Ozzy, Chris Cornell, Rivers Cuomo, Les Claypool, Kurt Cobain, Maynard James Keenan, Paul Di'Anno, Matt Talbott, Layne Staley (not to mention Jerry Cantrell), Thom Yorke (sometimes (mainly OK Computer and In Rainbows (especially the backing vocals in Videotape)))...
I could go on.
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 08, 2012, 01:27 PM...
Sometimes I wonder if it's just the sound of him now when he sing like the high notes on Bored for example.
I agree, he tries to sing more like a real singer, in different way. I respect that but I will wait when Chino will return to his past style, I hope he can do it again.
And come on ! Sometimes this record lacks some screams, it's not so difficult in studios (not also difficult like his high notes).
You gotta understand, with age comes certain constraints. Obviously Chino's vocals aren't as raw as they were on S/T, over time things happen and change, and I can understand and respect that. Chino wants to try whatever style he feels best suited to at the time, and it's not like it has an effect on the song if he sings instead of screams it. His vocal power on tracks like "Leathers" and "Gauze" is still evidence that his voice is great, stunning even. And that's the divide I noticed from most fans: they either love the new or hate it. I can see why, but personally I love both and it doesn't matter. It's still great music, right?
On a side note, DE gets unwarranted hate around here. smh
Quote from: Mustang on Nov 08, 2012, 02:23 PMYou gotta understand, with age comes certain constraints. Obviously Chino's vocals aren't as raw as they were on S/T, over time things happen and change, and I can understand and respect that. Chino wants to try whatever style he feels best suited to at the time, and it's not like it has an effect on the song if he sings instead of screams it. His vocal power on tracks like "Leathers" and "Gauze" is still evidence that his voice is great, stunning even. And that's the divide I noticed from most fans: they either love the new or hate it. I can see why, but personally I love both and it doesn't matter. It's still great music, right?
On a side note, DE gets unwarranted hate around here. smh
I understand, but this high notes are not so different with the screams in terms of difficulty so ... I'm alright with a record without screams but here, some song of KNY need the Chino's rage because for me it's an important thing who have a real effect on some song.
And most importantly, the melancholic sound of Chino's voice is missing.
Without that, I think it's a really really good album, more than DE (I don't hate it, it's just the weakest album of them, still a fucking great music compare to the rest).
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 08, 2012, 02:45 PM...
So it's not the fact that Chino sounds like that when he tries to sing like before, it's just a different way to sing. So can he use his diaphragm or he can't do it ?
You seem to know a lot of things in terms of singing, pretty interesting.
I think its a combination of things, Stef keeps going lower and lower on every record and when you change the tuning on the guitar you have to change your playing style a little bit cause the things you used to play before dont sound that good anymore... and Chino cant sing lower cause it will completely change Deftones sound so he has to go up...
Proof:
[Good Quality] Deftones ft. System of a Down -Toxicity (2009 - Benefit Show for Chi Cheng) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv2pc__ocQM#ws)
I'm not a 100% sure but the songs that Chino sings "naturally" are songs played on C or C# (minerva, change, riviere) and he has some difficult times singing energetic songs like Leathers (played on A) 'cause he has to sing on a higher note and on top of that he has to sing it kind of loud... but i also noticed that its not too much of a trouble when he sings softly like in Rosemary chorus which is played on A# key.
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 08, 2012, 03:57 PM...
The main thing ? Begin to sing with his throat rather than his diaphragme ? So that's why he lost his melancholy vibe ?
How do you know that he sing with his diaphragm or his throat ?
Why this date ?
Sorry for the questions but I'm interested
I just wish he pumped out some more screams throughout the course of the record. "Graphic Nature" could have benefited from some and so could have "Rosemary" at the end.
Songs like Gauze are absolutely perfect vocally and I'm quite glad he has evolved his vocals over time. If it was all too aggressive the album wouldn't be as dynamic as it is.
I dont think you are gonna see that 'melancholy/rage' side of him too much anymore, he has matured and is in a better place now in his life (you can tell) its not as natural to him anymore- I think if it was up to him he wouldnt scream anymore at all, he just does it to appease the long time d'tones fans and occaisionally if a song really calls for it, he even busts out a few scream/singing in crosses
I remember an interview when he talked about record exec's criticizing the way he sings and when he started working with S Lopez, Lopez said he wanted him to really work on pronoucing his vocals clearly... I think that really effected his style
Quote from: Teknoman on Nov 08, 2012, 04:22 PM
I think its a combination of things, Stef keeps going lower and lower on every record and when you change the tuning on the guitar you have to change your playing style a little bit cause the things you used to play before dont sound that good anymore... and Chino cant sing lower cause it will completely change Deftones sound so he has to go up...
Proof:
[Good Quality] Deftones ft. System of a Down -Toxicity (2009 - Benefit Show for Chi Cheng) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv2pc__ocQM#ws)
I'm not a 100% sure but the songs that Chino sings "naturally" are songs played on C or C# (minerva, change, riviere) and he has some difficult times singing energetic songs like Leathers (played on A) 'cause he has to sing on a higher note and on top of that he has to sing it kind of loud... but i also noticed that its not too much of a trouble when he sings softly like in Rosemary chorus which is played on A# key.
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
There are some examples on KNY that sound like old Chino. Romantic Dreams comes to my mind. I hear the desperation in his voice that has always attracted me. It sounds like he's on the verge of breaking down. I love it.
I'm getting used to this new style, but you know what...I feel like Chino doesn't think he would've made a great record if he stuck with the same formula. He's older now and I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to keep singing the same way every time. It's like a challenge for him, I think. That's why he's done so many side projects...he's an artist and they need to express that. Sticking to what you always do doesn't get you anywhere.
People will never be happy. They have their expectations of what someone ELSE's work should sound like. Why don't they go out and make their own music? I sure a hell would like to make my own version of metal/shoegaze/electronic/dream/grunge music, but I just don't have it in me. Atleast, not yet.
I remember all the shit people gave S/T for his "lazy" singing style, but I loved it. KNY doesn't sound like that, but I'll live. I get to hear some of that in Rosemary and other songs, but its no biggie. I'll just have to get used to it.
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 08, 2012, 05:50 PM
Quote from: Teknoman on Nov 08, 2012, 04:22 PM
I think its a combination of things, Stef keeps going lower and lower on every record and when you change the tuning on the guitar you have to change your playing style a little bit cause the things you used to play before dont sound that good anymore... and Chino cant sing lower cause it will completely change Deftones sound so he has to go up...
Proof:
[Good Quality] Deftones ft. System of a Down -Toxicity (2009 - Benefit Show for Chi Cheng) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv2pc__ocQM#ws)
I'm not a 100% sure but the songs that Chino sings "naturally" are songs played on C or C# (minerva, change, riviere) and he has some difficult times singing energetic songs like Leathers (played on A) 'cause he has to sing on a higher note and on top of that he has to sing it kind of loud... but i also noticed that its not too much of a trouble when he sings softly like in Rosemary chorus which is played on A# key.
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
There are some examples on KNY that sound like old Chino. Romantic Dreams comes to my mind. I hear the desperation in his voice that has always attracted me. It sounds like he's on the verge of breaking down. I love it.
I'm getting used to this new style, but you know what...I feel like Chino doesn't think he would've made a great record if he stuck with the same formula. He's older now and I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to keep singing the same way every time. It's like a challenge for him, I think. That's why he's done so many side projects...he's an artist and they need to express that. Sticking to what you always do doesn't get you anywhere.
People will never be happy. They have their expectations of what someone ELSE's work should sound like. Why don't they go out and make their own music? I sure a hell would like to make my own version of metal/shoegaze/electronic/dream/grunge music, but I just don't have it in me. Atleast, not yet.
I remember all the shit people gave S/T for his "lazy" singing style, but I loved it. KNY doesn't sound like that, but I'll live. I get to hear some of that in Rosemary and other songs, but its no biggie. I'll just have to get used to it.
This.. U guys are spot on. The tunings get lower and lower.. It effects the complete band (listen to bass and snaredrum on SNW or DE).. they sound so floppy and low! Bassguitar too..
As for live performances. And studio vs live is completely different mic'd.. Dynamic vs condensor mic! Chino would benefit from using one of those shure m4a2 or something. But they'd need one hell of a noisegate.
And ofcourse, playing 3-5 nights a week puts a strain on it. So he savors it and doesn't push it too much (long notes, high chest notes etc). When he was younger his chords could take way more beating, but he overdid it and blew out one of his chords in 2001. After that it was much weaker.
Still he has a great voice, and considering all the variety of stuff he does.. he's doing well. But yeah some more technique could help him (diaphragm)
oh and like the notes on poltergeist chorus. He can belt them out live, probably, but i think he's scared his voice will crap out.. i mean if it hurts he can't say i'll take a break for 30 mins (like he can do in the studio)
Thanks for the answer Vesanic.
Actually the record grows on me, it's seems to be more bold, I like that.
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 08, 2012, 06:18 PM...
I think it started a little earlier than that. Compare his vocals on White Pony with his vocals on Deftones.
I think that " Woaaah ooohh ohhh oh" on Swerve City is really tasty sounding... It is catchy and I don't mind.
I think his vocals change with the music the band creates. Simple as that..
His newer vocal style fits with the music they have created on Diamond Eyes & Koi No Yokan.
And his ATF/WP vocal style is still very much there, especially on "Poltergeist" "Swerve City" "Rosemary" & "Graphic Nature"
You gotta remember he's gotten older.. you're voice changes (obviously) as you get older. He's what? In his mid-late 30s?
In my opinion, even though his vocals have changed over the last few albums, he has still remained very true to himself and his vocal style.
You know it's just an analysis ? It's not just for kill Chino and say something bad.
Even with this changes I think Chino stays one of the best singer, on KNY also.
His voice has never bothered me on record, I just wish he'd stop recording vocals that he can't even begin to replicate live (976-Evil, Leathers).
Quote from: Dath on Nov 09, 2012, 12:53 AM
His voice has never bothered me on record, I just wish he'd stop recording vocals that he can't even begin to replicate live (976-Evil, Leathers).
I don't think he should hold back in the studio just for live performances its kind of an expected thing that the live performance won't be as good as full studio quality
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 09, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from: Dath on Nov 09, 2012, 12:53 AM
His voice has never bothered me on record, I just wish he'd stop recording vocals that he can't even begin to replicate live (976-Evil, Leathers).
I don't think he should hold back in the studio just for live performances its kind of an expected thing that the live performance won't be as good as full studio quality
lol yeah.. it's sad but true. I may only see them like once per tour.. I'd rather have great solid vocals on a record, than for him to hold his vocals back just so he can replicate them perfectly live.
Plus, somehow Chino pulls it off in his own way and kinda gets away with it with his badassery and overall supreme stage presence.
Although, I would like to see them have a great televised performance.
Seems like majority of their newer tv performances are not the best they could do ya know?
Quote from: DAFTPUNK87 on Nov 09, 2012, 02:11 AM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 09, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from: Dath on Nov 09, 2012, 12:53 AM
His voice has never bothered me on record, I just wish he'd stop recording vocals that he can't even begin to replicate live (976-Evil, Leathers).
I don't think he should hold back in the studio just for live performances its kind of an expected thing that the live performance won't be as good as full studio quality
lol yeah.. it's sad but true. I may only see them like once per tour.. I'd rather have great solid vocals on a record, than for him to hold his vocals back just so he can replicate them perfectly live.
Plus, somehow Chino pulls it off and kinda gets away with it with his badassery and overall supreme stage presence.
haha that's my point why have him be average on the record and live ,yeah seeing them live isn't about the sound quality it's about the energy
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 09, 2012, 02:13 AM
Quote from: DAFTPUNK87 on Nov 09, 2012, 02:11 AM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 09, 2012, 01:10 AM
Quote from: Dath on Nov 09, 2012, 12:53 AM
His voice has never bothered me on record, I just wish he'd stop recording vocals that he can't even begin to replicate live (976-Evil, Leathers).
I don't think he should hold back in the studio just for live performances its kind of an expected thing that the live performance won't be as good as full studio quality
lol yeah.. it's sad but true. I may only see them like once per tour.. I'd rather have great solid vocals on a record, than for him to hold his vocals back just so he can replicate them perfectly live.
Plus, somehow Chino pulls it off and kinda gets away with it with his badassery and overall supreme stage presence.
haha that's my point why have him be average on the record and live ,yeah seeing them live isn't about the sound quality it's about the energy
BINGO! Nothing beats the energy at their live shows.. I won't forget the feeling I had the first time the lights went down and they all walked on stage, Chino jumping onto his platform and them kicking the set off with Feiticeira. Nothing can beat it for me.
Oh, I'm not trying to say he should hold himself back like that. More that it's worrisome when he struggles consistently with something live, what with his history of damaging his vocal cords.
They don't play 976-Evil live, so that's not relevant to this, I suppose. It's just kind of uncomfortable to hear him straining to do the choruses to Leathers or Passenger (or 976 when they did play it that time), knowing that he had to undergo surgery from working his voice too hard already.
I don't need everything to sound perfect live, things like the ending to Bored or the bridge to Hole in the Earth that he sometimes is off on don't bother me really. Besides, one of the best things about Chino's vocals is how great they can sound on or off key.
But yeah, the records are so consistently amazing, I don't want him to be preoccupied with how well it might sound live.
I get what you mean i think he's got a lot smarter at preserving his voice i think stuff like TS and crosses have helped it keeps him in practice without too much screaming and strain ,wouldn't want a repeat of WP days lol
I wish this had more crooning and screams, harsher vocals but I'm not an idiot. I realize its 2012 and chino is almost 40 years old. Hell I'm almost 30 and I don't think I would want to be the same style/type of vocalist for 20+ years. I just love it all. I can listen to KNY 5 times in a row then switch to S/T or ATF and know I enjoy all of his vocals. Yay Chino!
P.S. I am kinds hammered :P
I wonder if he's going to let loose on the palms stuff
Quote from: only pieces remain on Nov 09, 2012, 02:37 AM
I wish this had more crooning and screams, harsher vocals but I'm not an idiot. I realize its 2012 and chino is almost 40 years old. Hell I'm almost 30 and I don't think I would want to be the same style/type of vocalist for 20+ years. I just love it all. I can listen to KNY 5 times in a row then switch to S/T or ATF and know I enjoy all of his vocals. Yay Chino!
P.S. I am kinds hammered :P
took the words out of my mouth
I'm about the same age as Chino and even though I haven't been on tour for the better part of 20 years, everything starts to get older after you hit mid 30's. Shit I work an IT job and come home and crash. I'm tired.This dude is constantly on the go, screaming, partying, etc...
I think he did a fine job on this record.
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 09, 2012, 02:38 AM
I wonder if he's going to let loose on the palms stuff
Yeah.. I'm curious about that as well.
I dont think he can scream the same. and I could care less. His vocal melodies have improved tenfold. He comes up with amazing melodies. thats not an easy task.
When i first heard WP from the first track i noticed his voice had changed a fair bit since ATF... IMO
Quote from: lungdamage on Nov 09, 2012, 06:25 AM
When i first heard WP from the first track i noticed his voice had changed a fair bit since ATF... IMO
exactly! I'd actually go as far to say that every single album he sounds much different, yet still Chino. ATF compared to Adrenaline is the same. Self Titled to White Pony. SNW to Self Titled, etc etc
Quote from: godin on Nov 09, 2012, 05:57 AM
I dont think he can scream the same. and I could care less. His vocal melodies have improved tenfold. He comes up with amazing melodies. thats not an easy task.
That's really the only thing I miss wen it comes to live shows or the heavier songs on albums. His screaming sounds more like shouting to me, so it's a shame that he cant scream like he used to. But then, it's very understandable considering he's older than he was and he (presumably) doesnt have the best technique.
shouting is lot more cooler than screaming i think.
I also don't listen to a lot of screaming music. Deftones are pretty much as heavy as it gets for me (along with 1 or 2 other bands)
the scream in graphic nature at 2:04 with a lot of echo is a very nice little touch i think. loving it
Quote from: godin on Nov 09, 2012, 06:34 AM
Quote from: lungdamage on Nov 09, 2012, 06:25 AM
When i first heard WP from the first track i noticed his voice had changed a fair bit since ATF... IMO
exactly! I'd actually go as far to say that every single album he sounds much different, yet still Chino. ATF compared to Adrenaline is the same. Self Titled to White Pony. SNW to Self Titled, etc etc
Great example would be Jacob Bannon from Converge.
When Forever Comes Crashing and
Jane Doe he uses his higher pitch, cat screeching. Then with
You Fail Me it still sounds scratchy and fucking evil, but its lower at this point. He starts shouting more (which is my favorite) like on the track "Last Light". Then the all out assault of
No Heroes was released. Here he sounds like a different person compared to their earlier work. Super grimy and low. Then his shouting on "Lonewolves" is awesome. So different from their whole catalogue. Reminds me of this band
The Kinison...kind of bratty, punk, hardcore vocals. With
Axe to Fall we're treated (or I am) with his shouty vocals again. Music is totally different. Way more tech-metal and clean sounding. The vocals on the other hand get even DEEPER.
All We Love We Leave Behind was released last month and it features more shouting than before. The music [just like KNY] sound like a mixture of all their records before. It's clean, but not TOO clean.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that great bands change with every record. These bands have been around for 20 years or so. Things like screaming your lungs out every night and smoking and other shit does damage, but we are still blessed with their art. I'll take what I can get. New Chongo singing isn't anything horrible. It's just new and you'll get used to it.
I don´t like it.
I miss the old Chino style.
The meat has completely dropped out of his voice - the last time it sounded totally healthy was ST - it's inevitable, as quite a few people have said. I think this is why he's become so prolific of late - he sees the end of his voice so he's getting busy. People get quite practical under those kinds of circumstances. He's really developed his craft though. There's a lot of brilliant flourishes, and I fucking love everything he does on Tempest (except for that shrill, strangulated scream). Now might be the time to cut back on those 'woo's though! After 'Hole in the Earth' and 'Rocket Skates' they've become a bit token.
The point obviously isn't the band and Chino evolving their sound. Of course they're gonna change with each record. They're known for always moving forward. That's a good thing. The point is whether his vocals on this record sound good. The more I listen, the more I like how it sounds. I wasn't so sure at first. But there's still that element of whether he's pushing himself to do things he simply can't pull off, and does it show on record.
Something I am sure of, however, is that I would love them to work with Terry Date again. That's obviously not to say I'd like them to regress. You look at the transition of their sound from Adrenaline to Deftones and it's a huge leap. They've always changed with every record. But as far as the actual production and the quality of song writing, he brought out the best in them in my opinion.
I have never in my life heard a drum sound as good as Abe's sounds on White Pony. It's the best I've ever heard. The kick is so punchy, the snare has a real crack to it. The hi-hats sound fantastic in songs like Digital Bath. The intro to that song alone is sex, what with the way the drums sound and the linear hi-hat pattern.
If I were to choose yet another producer I'd suggest Billy Howerdel from A Perfect Circle. He's very talented, with the quality of sounds he captures. It's very textured. Thirteenth Step is very well produced and with the Deftones' current sound, it'd be a perfect fit. Very dynamic. The last two records, whilst sounding great, just haven't been quite as clean or distinctive enough for my tastes. Among the reasons White Pony is considered such a classic is it's sound. It's so clean. Almost shiny metallic. Everything cuts through. It's amazing.
I somewhat believe Terry Date might do a better job production wise but as far as their sound goes i don't think it would change they've said lots Terry didn't give feedback or pitch ideas that much and he wasn't present during the writing process like Nick has been but i think if they went back to Terry they would do an album that would sound like an album done with Nick only it would take longer. Nick doesn't make the music the guys do he just helps them focus changing to Terry wouldn't change the music back it would just change the time it takes to get the same result.
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 08, 2012, 03:38 AM...
I'm with you 110%. I prefer Chino's voice on WP & ST to everything else. White Pony is and will always be their best music. I've been saying that since day 1. Chino will never again make some shit as moving as the boy's republic, korea, pink maggit, that whole fucking record.
On some of the newer songs Chino's trying too hard to be a traditional singer. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but with all the illuminati bullshit in their new albums and the more commercialized sound of their music I'd say they've been bought out. Regardless, they'll always be #1 to me.
I'm listening to Ice Ache as I type this, shit is perfectly dark and pwns the fuck out of 2012 chino.
I think they mean in terms of writing some stuff they said Terry would just leave them to it and they'd end up getting nothing where as Nick pays attention to everything and interacts with them more and gives feedback they say he thinks about everything from that day and then at the next session he comes in with ideas already.
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 10, 2012, 04:02 AM
I somewhat believe Terry Date might do a better job production wise but as far as their sound goes i don't think it would change they've said lots Terry didn't give feedback or pitch ideas that much and he wasn't present during the writing process like Nick has been but i think if they went back to Terry they would do an album that would sound like an album done with Nick only it would take longer. Nick doesn't make the music the guys do he just helps them focus changing to Terry wouldn't change the music back it would just change the time it takes to get the same result.
I don't think that's the case. I don't want them to change the music back. I just think Terry gives them a better sound. The production on the albums produced by him is far superior to the ones where it isn't. And if he didn't get involved in the writing process, that's fine with me too. Any band that can write the albums they did that he produced can write some pretty good fucking songs. He records them so well. I don't care if it takes them two years or five. Sonically he gets better results.
Quote from: ToneDef on Nov 10, 2012, 04:14 AM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 10, 2012, 04:02 AM
I somewhat believe Terry Date might do a better job production wise but as far as their sound goes i don't think it would change they've said lots Terry didn't give feedback or pitch ideas that much and he wasn't present during the writing process like Nick has been but i think if they went back to Terry they would do an album that would sound like an album done with Nick only it would take longer. Nick doesn't make the music the guys do he just helps them focus changing to Terry wouldn't change the music back it would just change the time it takes to get the same result.
I don't think that's the case. I don't want them to change the music back. I just think Terry gives them a better sound. The production on the albums produced by him is far superior to the ones where it isn't. And if he didn't get involved in the writing process, that's fine with me too. Any band that can write the albums they did that he produced can write some pretty good fucking songs. He records them so well. I don't care if it takes them two years or five. Sonically he gets better results.
I fully agree Terry Date knows how to record Deftones music my whole point was if they went back with Terry they wouldn't change the style of the music to what it use to be .(When i said sound i was talking about the style of music not the literal production)
I would also like to see what they would come up with it they were left to their own devices but i don't think that affects the tone of their music i think that's mainly to do with their personal life's their all pretty happy at the moment and they said Chi's accident has really made them appreciate what they have so the music has a very positive vibe.I would love another album like S/T but i just don't think their in the state of mind regardless of producer to write music like that anymore
I have to admit that when I heard Leathers for first time I thought that the "everything inside show" part was sung by Sergio :(
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 10, 2012, 04:54 AM... Deftones" deal.
I wonder if Eros has the old chino style? Maybe its the last album with that unfocused dirty magic.
Quote from: Rally Sweat on Nov 09, 2012, 10:40 PM
The meat has completely dropped out of his voice - the last time it sounded totally healthy was ST - it's inevitable, as quite a few people have said. I think this is why he's become so prolific of late - he sees the end of his voice so he's getting busy. People get quite practical under those kinds of circumstances.
i think you're right. i didn't like the abundance of side projects and collabs before but i understand that he gotta make hay while the sun shines.
his voice is like at least 50% of what makes this band so this thread is an idiot
U guys all talking out of ur ass(es)..
WP, S/T, SNW we're all 0 procent spontaneity... Everything Chino did he 2nd guessed (he said so himself)..
D/E and KNY are way more natural records in this respect.
I'm not saying one way of makin songs is better than the other..
edit: he even 2nd guessed guitars/structures from other bandmembers.. Remember how he 'butchered' Mein?..
LOL!! "Chino is trying to sing like a real singer"???? WTF are you people on?!
HE IS A REAL SINGER!!
Also...he's not a teenager/20 year old anymore.....times change...taste changes...style changes AND...HIS VOICE HAS CHANGED!!
Some people would (it seems) like for them to just keep pumping out the same old sound and not evolve...I myself think the last 2 albums are amongst their best shit and don't see them becoming a more "polished" band as a bad thing...they are fucking musicians who take their craft seriously & passionately and of course they want to keep growing and pushing on the boundaries others have set for them. They proved a long time ago you can't pigeon hole their sound....they aren't new metal or shoe gaze or any of those fucking stupid labels people have tried to throw on them....plain and simple..THEY ARE ROCK N ROLL!!
So if you long for the past go listen to the old shit.....if you are like me then you are very excited that a band that has been around this long is not only still making music but making some of their BEST music...that means the flames aren't dying..they are burning stronger than ever and THAT makes me a very happy fan.
VIVA LA DEFTONES!!!!!!!!!!
I also think these last 2 albums have been some of their best. DE gets way to much shit around here, it's a great album and Chino's voice is still awesome. For me personally the 2 weakest albums are WP & SNW. I think with DE and now KNY they've really found their path again.
Quote from: Flowb on Nov 10, 2012, 05:18 PM
For me personally the 2 weakest albums are WP & SNW.
:o
Quote from: Flowb on Nov 10, 2012, 05:18 PM
For me personally the 2 weakest albums are WP & SNW.
(http://gifsftw.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/conan.gif)
Quote from: TheShade1989 on Nov 10, 2012, 05:40 PM
Quote from: Flowb on Nov 10, 2012, 05:18 PM
For me personally the 2 weakest albums are WP & SNW.
(http://gifsftw.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/conan.gif)
geez... estas loco...
haha, that might not be the most popular opinion around here I guess. I didn't say that I don't like the albums :)
Quote from: beaverwithfishyshoes on Nov 10, 2012, 12:06 PM
his voice is like at least 50% of what makes this band so this thread is an idiot
A
whole thread dedicated to something so important? REALLY!?!?!
Quote from: Crazy Breed on Nov 10, 2012, 03:30 PM
LOL!! "Chino is trying to sing like a real singer"???? WTF are you people on?!
HE IS A REAL SINGER!!
Also...he's not a teenager/20 year old anymore.....times change...taste changes...style changes AND...HIS VOICE HAS CHANGED!!
Some people would (it seems) like for them to just keep pumping out the same old sound and not evolve...I myself think the last 2 albums are amongst their best shit and don't see them becoming a more "polished" band as a bad thing...they are fucking musicians who take their craft seriously & passionately and of course they want to keep growing and pushing on the boundaries others have set for them. They proved a long time ago you can't pigeon hole their sound....they aren't new metal or shoe gaze or any of those fucking stupid labels people have tried to throw on them....plain and simple..THEY ARE ROCK N ROLL!!
So if you long for the past go listen to the old shit.....if you are like me then you are very excited that a band that has been around this long is not only still making music but making some of their BEST music...that means the flames aren't dying..they are burning stronger than ever and THAT makes me a very happy fan.
VIVA LA DEFTONES!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my God, seriously? Have you actually read things properly? NO FUCKING SHIT THEY'RE PROGRESSING AS A BAND..
REALLY? OH MY GOD.. HIS VOICE IS CHANGING? AND THEY'RE NOT WRITING 7 WORDS PART 2??? BOOOOORING!!
The point is whether he's trying to punch above his weight, so to speak. If Stef was trying to go all fucking Van Halen on KNY, but not quite hitting it because it's beyond what he's capable of, would that be ok? Would you enjoy listening to that?
The band evolving their sound is fine. Who wouldn't want that?
Quote from: Playhouse on Nov 10, 2012, 11:50 AMQuote from: Vesanic on Nov 10, 2012, 04:54 AM...
I wonder if Eros has the old chino style? Maybe its the last album with that unfocused dirty magic.
I'll put money on it that Eros is the old deftones. It was only written and recorded what? 1-2 years after SNW? And it's the deftones with Chi, so I'm dying to hear it.
Quote from: Bza々 on Nov 11, 2012, 12:58 AMQuote from: Playhouse on Nov 10, 2012, 11:50 AMQuote from: Vesanic on Nov 10, 2012, 04:54 AM...
I wonder if Eros has the old chino style? Maybe its the last album with that unfocused dirty magic.
I'll put money on it that Eros is the old deftones. It was only written and recorded what? 1-2 years after SNW? And it's the deftones with Chi, so I'm dying to hear it.
Yeah they said it was the darkest album they've ever done so i'm thinking something like Self Titled and Melanie sounded pretty raw but it's all just speculation
Ok two things guys:
1:Ever see opera singers running around onstage singing? The voice is a difficult "instrument" to keep consistent and is very temperamental to maintain. That's why their are vocal coaches who specialize in rock because of the different demands. I remember the way this girl I used to date, she was a good singer, would prep and practice and maintain a routine (don't smoke past a certain hour before, drink this and that, eat only this), and freak out if she was sick and worry about certain notes she'd have to hit. I "sing", but I suck, so I just go with it.
2:Motherfucker sings like he got kicked in the balls. lol
I do miss the old way he used to serenade, but completely understand he fucked his chords up and can't do it like he used too anymore. But I think the producer just isn't a good fit for the band. Too polished.
He sounds happier
just awesome!
the rest is bullshitalk
Chino's vocals in Swerve (the Oh oh ohhhhh part), Romantic dreams (the Chorus and a few other high parts) and Leathers (chorus) annoy me and honestly ruin what would othrwise be awesome songs. I hate how the Chorus on RD comes back in so predictable, totally ruins the song for me, a song that could have been one of the best songs they have ever made.
His Vocals on Poltergeist and Goon squad are money. Love those songs.
Graphic Nature and Gauze I am fine with though there is a little too much repetition.
Tempest is a cool song though I have overplayed it.
Rosemary is just a Gem. Amazing song.
Entombed is terrific for a slow song and WHTY is a very strong closer for this album.
So i am a little disturbed with Chino for the above reasons. But the dude is still one of the top rock vocalist in my book. He is unmatched as far as I am concerned in the number of excellent original songs he has put out.
Quote from: Robotsatemygrandma on Nov 11, 2012, 04:12 AM
But I think the producer just isn't a good fit for the band. Too polished.
Agreed.
I think chino can still sing, I mean check out gauze, its pretty much flawless and he hits his old trusted high note like a boss. What I will say is that he fails miserably at singing the more poppy Brandon boyd style sued, the intro to tempest is horrible. I predicted back before snw that chino would phase out screaming to preserve what's left of his voice, this is now evident in both new releases and their live performances.
Let's make this quick. It ruins the record a great deal. Deftones' appeal always was Chino's unusual way of singing and varied vocal approach.
Quote from: ToneDef on Nov 11, 2012, 12:43 AM
Quote from: Crazy Breed on Nov 10, 2012, 03:30 PM
LOL!! "Chino is trying to sing like a real singer"???? WTF are you people on?!
HE IS A REAL SINGER!!
Also...he's not a teenager/20 year old anymore.....times change...taste changes...style changes AND...HIS VOICE HAS CHANGED!!
Some people would (it seems) like for them to just keep pumping out the same old sound and not evolve...I myself think the last 2 albums are amongst their best shit and don't see them becoming a more "polished" band as a bad thing...they are fucking musicians who take their craft seriously & passionately and of course they want to keep growing and pushing on the boundaries others have set for them. They proved a long time ago you can't pigeon hole their sound....they aren't new metal or shoe gaze or any of those fucking stupid labels people have tried to throw on them....plain and simple..THEY ARE ROCK N ROLL!!
So if you long for the past go listen to the old shit.....if you are like me then you are very excited that a band that has been around this long is not only still making music but making some of their BEST music...that means the flames aren't dying..they are burning stronger than ever and THAT makes me a very happy fan.
VIVA LA DEFTONES!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my God, seriously? Have you actually read things properly? NO FUCKING SHIT THEY'RE PROGRESSING AS A BAND.. REALLY? OH MY GOD.. HIS VOICE IS CHANGING? AND THEY'RE NOT WRITING 7 WORDS PART 2??? BOOOOORING!!
The point is whether he's trying to punch above his weight, so to speak. If Stef was trying to go all fucking Van Halen on KNY, but not quite hitting it because it's beyond what he's capable of, would that be ok? Would you enjoy listening to that?
The band evolving their sound is fine. Who wouldn't want that?
well smart ass...i don't think he is trying to bite off more than he can chew....the shit sounds dope to me...but i'm not one of these dick heads who like to come on here and talk shit. tell you what...when your band makes it famous I'll go on your website and pop shit ok.
As much of a bummer as it is that we won't hear that crooning, desperate style of voice - the sooner people realise his voice has changed and matured along with his ability to sing - the sooner we can all shut up and enjoy it.
(http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/V03jznEQFKU/hqdefault.jpg)
Quote from: Crazy Breed on Nov 12, 2012, 07:44 PM
Quote from: ToneDef on Nov 11, 2012, 12:43 AM
Quote from: Crazy Breed on Nov 10, 2012, 03:30 PM
LOL!! "Chino is trying to sing like a real singer"???? WTF are you people on?!
HE IS A REAL SINGER!!
Also...he's not a teenager/20 year old anymore.....times change...taste changes...style changes AND...HIS VOICE HAS CHANGED!!
Some people would (it seems) like for them to just keep pumping out the same old sound and not evolve...I myself think the last 2 albums are amongst their best shit and don't see them becoming a more "polished" band as a bad thing...they are fucking musicians who take their craft seriously & passionately and of course they want to keep growing and pushing on the boundaries others have set for them. They proved a long time ago you can't pigeon hole their sound....they aren't new metal or shoe gaze or any of those fucking stupid labels people have tried to throw on them....plain and simple..THEY ARE ROCK N ROLL!!
So if you long for the past go listen to the old shit.....if you are like me then you are very excited that a band that has been around this long is not only still making music but making some of their BEST music...that means the flames aren't dying..they are burning stronger than ever and THAT makes me a very happy fan.
VIVA LA DEFTONES!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my God, seriously? Have you actually read things properly? NO FUCKING SHIT THEY'RE PROGRESSING AS A BAND.. REALLY? OH MY GOD.. HIS VOICE IS CHANGING? AND THEY'RE NOT WRITING 7 WORDS PART 2??? BOOOOORING!!
The point is whether he's trying to punch above his weight, so to speak. If Stef was trying to go all fucking Van Halen on KNY, but not quite hitting it because it's beyond what he's capable of, would that be ok? Would you enjoy listening to that?
The band evolving their sound is fine. Who wouldn't want that?
well smart ass...i don't think he is trying to bite off more than he can chew....the shit sounds dope to me...but i'm not one of these dick heads who like to come on here and talk shit. tell you what...when your band makes it famous I'll go on your website and pop shit ok.
Haha, I would
love that. You're right man, I'm terribly sorry for expressing any kind of opinion towards the new record of my favourite band that didn't involve me masturbating via keyboard.
Its remarkeble that he stil is able to sing almost every night.
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 13, 2012, 08:09 AM...
I srsly cant tell if its falsetto or not.
The chorus of WHTY is a bit more obvious but those Gauze notes to me sound like his notes in Digital Bath. Just more edited.
Quote from: Vesanic on Nov 13, 2012, 08:28 AM...
Can you explain it, i dont know what the differences are.
Fantastic.
Id rather have Chino just sing in that desperate sounding kind of low tone of voice like he does in "Dai The Flu" or even a somber higher tone like in "Digital Bath" and "One Weak", rather than trying this clean poppy bullshit approach he has on Diamond Eyes and KNY that he clearly isn't all that good at. Id also rather have no screaming at all, than to hear the way he screams now. He should just take a break from screaming on a few albums and just *sing* in a compelling enough fashion to make it up for it, so that maybe one day his voice will be repaired enough so he can return with an album like S/T where he screams bloody murder in like five songs.
I wonder too why hes never perfected his screams in a lower tone. His screams are always very high pitched, and that seems like that would take more of a toll on his voice. Hes shown he can do it a little bit in "Bored" and in the song he did with White Chapel at the end of his part...
Nick's production I think makes this whole situation worst, because his production is very flat compared to Terry's. I dont hear a whole lot of bass when listening to Nick. It sounds like a lot of clicking and buzzing, rather than thunderous and bludgeoning. This probably makes Chinos voice sound EVEN MORE high pitched and weird.
End of the day it's up to him he obviously likes singing the more melodic stuff at the moment like he mentioned in that interview recently and I think he does it really well he has a beautiful singing voice,I bet if he wanted he could scream he lungs off like he used to but then he'd probably hurt his throat again plus i think he's just a more mellow guy now and this is the kind of music he enjoys making these days.
Well Deftones just sound a lot less threatening than they use to. I think that's the best way to describe it. Back then, they had an air of malice to them, and even when they were being soothing, there was an element to it which made you think you shouldn't get too sucked in, or it could still completely destroy you...
Now there just.... Too easy to not take serious.
Yeah I get what you are saying you could see it coming after SNW I'm glad they've found a balance though instead of completely going clean it makes the old stuff more special sort of good though they have an album for all moods,I think going less threatening has alot to do with what Chino said in an interview about how he wants to put out songs he'll feel good playing in 10 years time he'd probably feel stupid as a 50 year old playing a song like 7 Words lol
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Chino was never really one for looking after his voice and having the right technique for singing/screaming and whatnot, was he? In which case, is anyone surprised his voice doesnt sound the same as it did 10+ yrs ago? I doubt your voice sounds the same unless you're in perfect condition. So I'm sure some of the changes to his singing/screaming arent even on purpose. The stuff that is on purpose...well, there was an interview with him saying he doesnt wanna be 50 yrs old and still screaming and sounding angry. I'll always prefer his style of singing that was more evident in the first four albums, but hey, he's older; he's changed not just physically, but also mentally and in terms of life experiences and preferences. Course not everyone is gonna like that or prefer it, but let's all roll with the times and try not to get caught up in the past, because for a lotta ppl, the dislike isnt of what he's actually doing, but rather the desire for things to be how they used to be, wen that just isnt gonna happen. I'm not saying everyone should force themselves to like something they dont like, but that for the ppl that dont like it because it's not the same as it used to be, it's a shame to let that get in the way of it.
All those people acting like Chino is in his fucking 60s are annoying as fuck. No, it's not "amazing" that he still performs regularly and is able to produce a sound at all. It's just not amazing at all.
What bothers me the most is not his vocal style but the fact that they put so many vocal effects in the songs. Delays, faces, echoes... It's just too much and it doesn't sound right to me.
Quote from: Sett on Nov 13, 2012, 12:48 PM
What bothers me the most is not his vocal style but the fact that they put so many vocal effects in the songs. Delays, faces, echoes... It's just too much and it doesn't sound right to me.
Would you mind special effects or makeup on an actor in a movie ? If it enhances the performance and allow the guys to tell a better story, why not ? But I agree it can be annoying to have too much of a gap between the vocals on the cd and live performances -which we often get with Chino...
Quote from: Caín on Nov 13, 2012, 12:42 PM
All those people acting like Chino is in his fucking 60s are annoying as fuck. No, it's not "amazing" that he still performs regularly and is able to produce a sound at all. It's just not amazing at all.
Jes it is Chino can never ever make the same recordings such as Adrenaline, so when jou like that screaming put one of the 3 first albums in joure cd player.
Obviously there's some friction here between the new fans and the old guys. I'm an old guy for your information, and you young punks need to learn some respect, but don't be fags just be respectful.
Run to the hils i sang in 1985 but not as good as Bruce ;)
And thanks respect imo
Quote from: Gee on Nov 13, 2012, 02:00 PM
Quote from: Sett on Nov 13, 2012, 12:48 PM
What bothers me the most is not his vocal style but the fact that they put so many vocal effects in the songs. Delays, faces, echoes... It's just too much and it doesn't sound right to me.
Would you mind special effects or makeup on an actor in a movie ? If it enhances the performance and allow the guys to tell a better story, why not ? But I agree it can be annoying to have too much of a gap between the vocals on the cd and live performances -which we often get with Chino...
I am fine with them in general, I just don't like the end result in KNY for whatever reason.
Quote from: Caín on Nov 13, 2012, 12:42 PM
All those people acting like Chino is in his fucking 60s are annoying as fuck. No, it's not "amazing" that he still performs regularly and is able to produce a sound at all. It's just not amazing at all.
No, it's not amazing, but everyone's always criticizing his singing/screaming now as opposed to how it used to be, so evidently he cant do it as well as he used to, and I'd assume a lotta that is down to him not looking after his voice, or his health in general, for probably a lotta his life. People have limits, no?
Quote from: TheShade1989 on Nov 13, 2012, 03:31 PM
Quote from: Caín on Nov 13, 2012, 12:42 PM
All those people acting like Chino is in his fucking 60s are annoying as fuck. No, it's not "amazing" that he still performs regularly and is able to produce a sound at all. It's just not amazing at all.
No, it's not amazing, but everyone's always criticizing his singing/screaming now as opposed to how it used to be, so evidently he cant do it as well as he used to, and I'd assume a lotta that is down to him not looking after his voice, or his health in general, for probably a lotta his life. People have limits, no?
^^^
yeah I dont know what people are really surprised about, his voice has literally changed after every album slowly to this point... its definitely not what it was but he is still my favorite male vocalist and probably the fav for most on this board, all this negativity is kinda baffling to me, I am really enjoying this album, I take it for what it is, I dont need another ATF or WP, I already have those and can listen to them whenever I want, KNY is fresh and I am digging it...
I saw the live cover of Toxicity he did with SOAD at Chi's Benefit Show, and it sounded more like Dave Gahan (Depeche Mode) than Serj Tankian. I wonder if he'll ever try doing a Deftones song with a lower register? Regardless of whether he pulled it off or not, I would imagine it would be another divisive issue amongst fans. It may sound cool if it was with something akin to the Deftones' version of doom metal. But then again, I am guitarded, so whatev
Quote from: Caín on Nov 13, 2012, 12:42 PM
All those people acting like Chino is in his fucking 60s are annoying as fuck. No, it's not "amazing" that he still performs regularly and is able to produce a sound at all. It's just not amazing at all.
You know what I mean?
I'd like to see a ton of people sing the way Chino does after 20+ years of screaming, singing and shitting their throat to shit live.
My brother's been giving me shit about Chino's live vocals (being off-key, generally) to the point of him all but saying that they were a fake poser band for not being able to play perfectly live. ("When a band can't play their stuff, it's just fake to me", "It's okay if the sound isn't spot on, but if they don't get all the notes, I can't respect that", etc.)
It pisses me off that if he walks in the room when I'm enjoying one of their performances that I end up having to go on the defensive for half an hour while he goes on about how they sound.
Sorry, just needed to vent, and this kind of thing isn't too far removed from the discussion, I suppose.
Anyone that doesn't recognize Chino's God given amazing singing ability should stop and turn on some ATF or white pony. There is no other singer with such original style that is able to weave in and out of notes which such originality, beauty and elicit such emotion IMO. I feel sorry for anyone that isn't a deftones fan and hasn't been able to really spend some time with their music, to take the journey over and over again at every listen.
On this album he is really still beyond all singers of this generation IMO but he is often up an octave too high for me. I still think the album is amazing on many levels and kicks major ass. But his lower octave quiet whisper singing and style of ATF and White Pony are even better and so Powerful. I think that is where the bitching is coming from in this thread. People are missing that, it's just so amazing and mind bending, and we only get a little of that here on this album. But personally I love the emotion on this new album and the song writing/lyrics. They are capturing the beauty of lust and falling in love and passion, which at my age I can appreciate. Call me soft but it's what life is about to me. The most powerful thing in life.
Ive gone through some horrible breakups and dont give a fuck periods in my life so can and will always relate to ATF and WP but ive also gone through some falling in love and KNY captures those experiences and moments where ATF and WP didn't.
Quote from: durtysanch on Nov 14, 2012, 11:36 PM
falling in love and KNY captures those experiences and moments where ATF and WP didn't.
I don't want to be a bitch or anything, but check out BQAD, Rx Queen, Teenager. ;)
Otherwise I agree.
Quote from: Gee on Nov 15, 2012, 04:27 PM
Quote from: durtysanch on Nov 14, 2012, 11:36 PM
falling in love and KNY captures those experiences and moments where ATF and WP didn't.
I don't want to be a bitch or anything, but check out BQAD, Rx Queen, Teenager. ;)
Otherwise I agree.
Yeah teenager is about the bit after though lol
am i the only who catched the straight up helmet reference in goon squad's chorus?
it is very explicit, once you embrace it. it all makes sense, and it becomes less odd.
you could make a case for it in romantic dreams too.
for the younger fans this will probably make no sense, but for the more seasoned fans.... suddenly it all makes sense.
Quote from: Dath on Nov 14, 2012, 10:37 PM
My brother's been giving me shit about Chino's live vocals (being off-key, generally) to the point of him all but saying that they were a fake poser band for not being able to play perfectly live. ("When a band can't play their stuff, it's just fake to me", "It's okay if the sound isn't spot on, but if they don't get all the notes, I can't respect that", etc.)
It pisses me off that if he walks in the room when I'm enjoying one of their performances that I end up having to go on the defensive for half an hour while he goes on about how they sound.
Sorry, just needed to vent, and this kind of thing isn't too far removed from the discussion, I suppose.
Simple, your brother is wrong. He just doesn't get it. Tell him to go listen to the Eagles if he wants the exact same experience as the studio. Furthermore, if a band isn't going over and above their capabilities in the studio then they are shortchanging everybody including themselves.
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 16, 2012, 02:30 AM
am i the only who catched the straight up helmet reference in goon squad's chorus?
it is very explicit, once you embrace it. it all makes sense, and it becomes less odd.
you could make a case for it in romantic dreams too.
for the younger fans this will probably make no sense, but for the more seasoned fans.... suddenly it all makes sense.
Other than sounding like the chorus to Wilma's Rainbow?
Quote from: pony_01 on Nov 13, 2012, 08:09 PMQuote from: Vesanic on Nov 13, 2012, 08:09 AM...
Beware is with falsetto and i knew that
Yeah thats what i thought aswell. Apparently its not according to V.
I really don't follow this discussion. Both sides are talking about two completely different things. Clearly he can't hit the same notes he used to (to Vesanic's points about falsetto), but those who defend him (the reasonable ones who have also recognized that his vocals have changed) are asking whether we should care.
Count me in the latter camp. I obviously haven't put in the same amount of time on KNY as the rest of their discs, but I still think he's throwing down some sick, albeit different, vocals, melodically and otherwise.
Vesanic, is the seemingly implied subtext to your argument that he needs coaching on his technique in some capacity, which might make him sound like he did back in the 90s? To me, it just sounds like he's getting old/fucked his shit up back in the day so he can't write the same kind of melodies. Although, to counter myself, when I saw them on their last tour he sounded a lot better than when I saw them in '03.
I agree he doesn't sound like he used but i also think he's not trying to sound like he used
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 16, 2012, 05:23 AM
I really don't follow this discussion. Both sides are talking about two completely different things. Clearly he can't hit the same notes he used to (to Vesanic's points about falsetto), but those who defend him (the reasonable ones who have also recognized that his vocals have changed) are asking whether we should care.
Count me in the latter camp. I obviously haven't put in the same amount of time on KNY as the rest of their discs, but I still think he's throwing down some sick, albeit different, vocals, melodically and otherwise.
Vesanic, is the seemingly implied subtext to your argument that he needs coaching on his technique in some capacity, which might make him sound like he did back in the 90s? To me, it just sounds like he's getting old/fucked his shit up back in the day so he can't write the same kind of melodies. Although, to counter myself, when I saw them on their last tour he sounded a lot better than when I saw them in '03.
The fact that he is old, fucked his shit up, is not the reason for the change in melody style.
If he wanted to write melodies that are similar to the Self titled/fur/WP days, he would be able to do that shit with his eyes closed.
I believe it's purely just him wanting to go in a different direction/style. And thats all it is.
Yeah, that was my bad; that's not what I meant to write at all. Change "can't write the same kind of melodies" to "can't hit the same notes with his full voice."
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 16, 2012, 06:46 AM
Yeah, that was my bad; that's not what I meant to write at all. Change "can't write the same kind of melodies" to "can't hit the same notes with his full voice."
Oh right yeah i agree haha
Quote from: Gee on Nov 15, 2012, 04:27 PM
Quote from: durtysanch on Nov 14, 2012, 11:36 PM
falling in love and KNY captures those experiences and moments where ATF and WP didn't.
I don't want to be a bitch or anything, but check out BQAD, Rx Queen, Teenager. ;)
Otherwise I agree.
I see your point, those are love songs i guess. But only IMO in a disconnected youthful lust type of way in my opinion. Not like someone that is head over heels all in for someone for forever and knows that what they want. More in a sort of " I would mind if you stayed way". More of a you will do way"
BQAD- I dressed you in her clothes now drive far away. Sounds like he's reflecting on a past real love that didnt work out and settling for the current girl.
RX Queen- Your my girl and thats alright, if you stay with me I wont mind.
Teenager - i see a breakup in that song, He did really have emotion for her but he is singing about a PAST love.
In KNY there is powerful present deep emotional love in the songs.
I wish this night would never end
stay with me as we sail...
I cant stop what you started
the stage is yours
the sky is falling down this night belongs to you.
I'm on fire....on fire.
But its not black and white, maybe its just my interpretation of things.
Yeah teenager was about the first time he got his heart broken when he was a teen hence the "New cavity moved into my heart today" as for their others songs like mascara i think they talk about a more true love not just teenage love where everyones the one until the next one lol it's that more mature love of seeing someone's flaws and accepting them anyway
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 17, 2012, 02:13 AM
Yeah teenager was about the first time he got his heart broken when he was a teen hence the "New cavity moved into my heart today" as for their others songs like mascara i think they talk about a more true love not just teenage love where everyones the one until the next one lol it's that more mature love of seeing someone's flaws and accepting them anyway
Im pretty sure Mascara was about his Ex wife about the time they were splitting. Plus looks at the lyrics," i hate your tatoos..., i'll keep you.. well it's too bad you're married to me". All of ATF and White pony seem to me about the angst of broken relationships or relationships going sour rather than a present true love as we see with KNY. maybe i am wrong.
Quote from: durtysanch on Nov 17, 2012, 02:32 AM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 17, 2012, 02:13 AM
Yeah teenager was about the first time he got his heart broken when he was a teen hence the "New cavity moved into my heart today" as for their others songs like mascara i think they talk about a more true love not just teenage love where everyones the one until the next one lol it's that more mature love of seeing someone's flaws and accepting them anyway
Im pretty sure Mascara was about his Ex wife about the time they were splitting. Plus looks at the lyrics," i hate your tatoos..., i'll keep you.. well it's too bad you're married to me". All of ATF and White pony seem to me about the angst of broken relationships or relationships going sour rather than a present true love as we see with KNY. maybe i am wrong.
Deftones - Mascara + Interview Chino (Lola Da Musica) (Part 5) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m61kMIjRuA8#)
Word Mascara came from the deepest depth.
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 17, 2012, 02:38 AM
Quote from: durtysanch on Nov 17, 2012, 02:32 AM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 17, 2012, 02:13 AM
Yeah teenager was about the first time he got his heart broken when he was a teen hence the "New cavity moved into my heart today" as for their others songs like mascara i think they talk about a more true love not just teenage love where everyones the one until the next one lol it's that more mature love of seeing someone's flaws and accepting them anyway
Im pretty sure Mascara was about his Ex wife about the time they were splitting. Plus looks at the lyrics," i hate your tatoos..., i'll keep you.. well it's too bad you're married to me". All of ATF and White pony seem to me about the angst of broken relationships or relationships going sour rather than a present true love as we see with KNY. maybe i am wrong.
Deftones - Mascara + Interview Chino (Lola Da Musica) (Part 5) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m61kMIjRuA8#)
This is heart-breaking. I'm glad I saw this.
Quote from: BillyNo.9 on Nov 16, 2012, 04:40 AM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 16, 2012, 02:30 AM
am i the only who catched the straight up helmet reference in goon squad's chorus?
it is very explicit, once you embrace it. it all makes sense, and it becomes less odd.
you could make a case for it in romantic dreams too.
for the younger fans this will probably make no sense, but for the more seasoned fans.... suddenly it all makes sense.
Other than sounding like the chorus to Wilma's Rainbow?
mmm not the best sample, im trying to find the right song for my referal. give some time.
Quote from: Gee on Nov 17, 2012, 05:41 PM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 17, 2012, 02:38 AM
Quote from: durtysanch on Nov 17, 2012, 02:32 AM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 17, 2012, 02:13 AM
Yeah teenager was about the first time he got his heart broken when he was a teen hence the "New cavity moved into my heart today" as for their others songs like mascara i think they talk about a more true love not just teenage love where everyones the one until the next one lol it's that more mature love of seeing someone's flaws and accepting them anyway
Im pretty sure Mascara was about his Ex wife about the time they were splitting. Plus looks at the lyrics," i hate your tatoos..., i'll keep you.. well it's too bad you're married to me". All of ATF and White pony seem to me about the angst of broken relationships or relationships going sour rather than a present true love as we see with KNY. maybe i am wrong.
Deftones - Mascara + Interview Chino (Lola Da Musica) (Part 5) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m61kMIjRuA8#)
This is heart-breaking. I'm glad I saw this.
Yeah it's really heartfelt, it's especially sad at the end when he says she's going to be with him when he grows old knowing they broke up already
This discussion got kinda stupid. It's not an attack or defense of his voice in general. I just don't wanna be hearing somebody trying to do something they simply cannot do on a studio recorded album. It's not about his style or that he doesn't scream so much. If I want that I'll put on an older record. I just don't think he has the voice to do what he's trying to do. His singing on the record sounds better now I've listened to it lots. But there's the odd moment on it that sounds straight up embarrassing, and that shouldn't happen on record.
I think Chino's vocals on this record have grown on me quite a bit.
Chino's never been perfect it's not his style but he's still my favourite vocalist he sounds very good on KNY
Chino's voice has been like soft velvet molesting me eardrums over the years. Even as his voice changes, I still utterly enjoy it. But I enjoy is guttural screams and his soft floating singing. First time I heard Chino's voices in the first verse of thholygstt by Crosses, I about peed myself in elation.
I love his voice in any way, from Lotion to Beware to Digital Bath to whatever. :)
Although I may prefer his album vocals in the golden days, his live vocals have never been better than they have been since the DE era began.
Quote from: ToneDef on Nov 20, 2012, 05:03 AM
This discussion got kinda stupid. It's not an attack or defense of his voice in general. I just don't wanna be hearing somebody trying to do something they simply cannot do on a studio recorded album. It's not about his style or that he doesn't scream so much. If I want that I'll put on an older record. I just don't think he has the voice to do what he's trying to do. His singing on the record sounds better now I've listened to it lots. But there's the odd moment on it that sounds straight up embarrassing, and that shouldn't happen on record.
Can you give an example of where it sounds embarrassing? I probably wont agree with you, I dont consider any embarrassing moments, but I'm curious.
Me neither, I think he sounds strong throughout the album.
Quote from: TheShade1989 on Nov 20, 2012, 05:13 PM
Quote from: ToneDef on Nov 20, 2012, 05:03 AM
This discussion got kinda stupid. It's not an attack or defense of his voice in general. I just don't wanna be hearing somebody trying to do something they simply cannot do on a studio recorded album. It's not about his style or that he doesn't scream so much. If I want that I'll put on an older record. I just don't think he has the voice to do what he's trying to do. His singing on the record sounds better now I've listened to it lots. But there's the odd moment on it that sounds straight up embarrassing, and that shouldn't happen on record.
Can you give an example of where it sounds embarrassing? I probably wont agree with you, I dont consider any embarrassing moments, but I'm curious.
Sure, off the top of my head, the chorus of Leathers and the intro and breakdown/bridge of Tempest. The chorus of Leathers mostly though. If you agree you win one compliment and five internets.
I should also make it clear he's my favourite vocalist ever. This is my favourite band ever. I have, like, the sickest Deftones tattoo ever, you know? The man himself has given it his seal of approval, haha. It sounds like I'm being super negative about the guy but I'm not. There are just moments in this record that rub me up the wrong way. But it's
still a fucking fantastic record. Its the fucking Deftones, obviously.
See your point,Tattoo sounds cool is it the self titled cover?
Nah, man..
(http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/207700_18196153608_4487_n.jpg)
that's way better people always get the skull, is that the hexagram single cover the one that had lovers on it?
Yeah, it's inside the booklet of the album too, but I took both to use. It's quite old now but still looks great.
Still looks pretty fresh was obviously done properly I hate cheap tattoos
That's a really old picture actually, like 5 years old maybe? I dunno. Sometimes I regret it a little, but fuck it. It's nicely done and I love the band.
I really like the vocal change aside from all the "oh's". It seems to work at projecting that positive mind set of the band more. The lyrical change, not so much. There's a whole lot of lines on the album I love but as I mentioned in my review of this album, Deftones isn't a band I want to see writing about the apocalypse and time travel. Swerve City I find particularly bad. I get this etherial, mystic vibe from it and it seems so out of place. Plus the aforementioned "oh's" on that song make me cringe. But overall I enjoy the lyrics. Don't know why people bash Romantic Dreams so much. It's one of my favourites. Goon Squad, Gauze, Poltergeist, Graphic Dreams and Entombed all bring me much joy. Still loving the album though I can't say I really care for Swerve City at all.
Side note, I have 3 Deftones tattoos and 2 are clearly visible on my forearm. The questions about the lyrics from Headup on my arm get a little tiresome from people who don't know Deftones or care and just go like "huh" and it gets awkward, but I don't regret a single one a bit.