Hey all. Just sharing something on my mind, let me know what you think. Sharing....lungs? Stick with me here....
ATF is probably MY personal favorite record, and i love watching the live performances from the 97-98 era as well. I burn up the youtube watching deftones live videos as i'm sure many or most of you do as well, and something i feel like i already knew kinda snapped into place earlier today, while watching live performances of Around the Fur (the song).
I watched many many vids, from 1997-2010, and realized that i kinda HATE the way this song sounds when they play it now. Now this could be any older song, i just picked ATF cuz, like a scientific experiment, you need a constant and a variable to reach a hypothesis. The song ATF being the constant and the time period performed in being the variable, obviously.
So, like i said, i kinda HATE it now, and i think i have for the past 3-4 years or so, i'm just finally ready to admit it. I love Deftones so much, i guess i had to go through a sort of grieving process...denial...anger...etc. now i'm at acceptance and here's my hypothesis for why this has happened.
2 things, both having to do with Chino...at first i thought it was the missing Chi, but i think now it's mainly Chino.
Number one: Chino's voice. Obviously we all know that Chino's voice has changed drastically starting at around the middle of the Self Titled tours. I know that he injured his vocal chords at some point, though i forget when, but IMO if anything put the nail in the "awesome screaming" coffin, it was that tour, performing Hexagram every night definitely didn't help his voice. It was around this time that his screaming started turning into more of a "screeching", and i'm talking about the exhaled screams. Also he started using the inhale as more of a crutch intsead of just an option to accentuate certain parts of songs. Now, i am not downing his vocals, as a matter of fact, i think that his vocals although bad if not terrible at end of ST tours(possibly due to his weight), got consistently better and better (from a technical standpoint) from that point on. SNW came out, and Chino seemed to have a much greater control of his voice in higher octaves, like for example in HITE, even using voice breaks systematically (the technique used as in yodeling for transitioning abruptly between octaves) and just all around singing-wise. However, for the first time, we were introduced to an album with a "screeching Chino" instead of a "screaming Chino". For the record, other than Mein and Pink Cellphone (mostly the buttfucking part...i mean wtf), i really love that album. So, although i love his older singing style, which i'll refer to as "drunken crooning" and his older screaming style, which i'll refer to as "wild animal", i noticed a change in both.
Number two: Chino's performance. As we also know, Chino has a history of being a quite erratic, unprofessional, and extremely passionate and open performer. I admire these qualities, to me signs of a true artist. The only times in the past i have seen him break this "persona", are during certain televised performances (not all). It seems to me that in certain high pressure situations, where "all eyes" are on Chino, he gets kind of self concious, and chokes a bit. He tried too hard to make himself look cool while singing, which he does naturally in the first place. Starting with the SNW tours, he began to turn into what i'll call "2 cool 4 school Chino". This is where we're at now. Instead of speaking in hushed hurried whispers on songs like Lhabia, or Rickets, like he used to do, all knelt down mysterious-like, he now shouts these parts standing tall and with a certain smugness, alot of the emotion seems to be gone from these performances, i mean, he used to get INTENSELY into it, and it was obvious. Now before you label me a hater, or hate me for labeling Chino (which i did only for clarity), hear me out, here's my point:
I think that Chino, in dealing with an injured voice (injured from giving us 10 plus years of the most amazing performances of all time, i might add), age, health, sobriety or changes in habit, and also the advent of a time where a hundred people at every concert are holding their camera phones high, fixated on Chino (i mean check out any of the youtube clips of mid SNW to now, it's sometimes hard to see the band through the sea of glowing screens), Chino has become, for the most part, a fundamentally different performer/vocalist than the one i personally got to know and love.... HOWEVER: I actually love Diamond Eyes, and when i watch performances of any song from that album, to me, they're phenomenal, this is where i'd get on board with everyone saying "Chino sounds better than he has in years" or something to that effect. So, to review, 2010 Deftones performing an older song that i love, makes me uncomfortable, and dissapointed. 2010 Deftones performing 2010 Deftones songs: AWESOME. It's a different animal. Chino trying to perform songs from a previous era at this point is like him trying to act like something/someone he's not anymore, while adversely he embraces and has much fire in his belly while performing songs he helped write since having fully "evolved"(DE). Chi's accident most likely contributed as well to his mindset, but as i said before, i feel alot of this began at the middle/end of ST tours.
In conclusion, personally, i'm not sure i even want to hear some of the older stuff live anymore, it feels like digging my dead lover out of the ground and hugging the lifeless shell, trying to reanimate the corpse instead of just being thankful for all the amazing memories. Hearing the new stuff live feels like i have accepted that DEFTONES are dead, long live the DEFTONES 2.0. (for the record, i'm not advocating calling them DEFTONES 2.0, that's fuckin' retarded, i'm just using it to make a point.)
I'm sure i'll catch all kinds of heat for this, though i hope i'm not misunderstood, these are just opinions, i tried to be clear and i hope you enjoyed reading.
For those of you that may attack me for the (i'll admit), extreme length of this post:
IF YOU WANT TO READ POSTS CONTAINING ONLY 156 CHARACTERS OR WTF EVER, GO TO TWITTER, I'LL STICK WITH SHARING LUNGS.
;)
I would agree that the intensity is more present with the new songs, but I feel like that's been the same with their latest record all throughout their career.
But then again, here's a ten year old song that sounds better now then it did then:
Deftones - Elite Live fryshuset - Arenan Sweden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdhvAQ987R0#)
elite song can easly fuck your voice..
well done chino...
im gonna read your post bodywars...today..
EDIT : I hope...
You're forgetting drugs and booze. Chino's pretty much sober now on stage.
TL;DR
Quote from: pinkmaggit69 on Dec 01, 2010, 07:45 AM
I would agree that the intensity is more present with the new songs, but I feel like that's been the same with their latest record all throughout their career.
But then again, here's a ten year old song that sounds better now then it did then:
Deftones - Elite Live fryshuset - Arenan Sweden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdhvAQ987R0#)
You made your point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I took the time to read your post and you made some valid points for sure. I've noticed exactly what your talking about. My response to this is that I think it's just Chino getting older and more mature now. He's really passionate about the new record which I think has basically brought about a new style to his swagger if you will. The crouching, inhale screams, and his old swagger I think are gone for good at this point. That's the old Chino, this is the new one. So when he does the older songs like ATF, Rickets, Bloody Cape, and whatever else, he's going to put the new Chino swagger into it, which primarily does seem less passionate than before. On the other hand, I think he's still being passionate, again just with his new 2010 swagger. I could be totally wrong here, but this is just me observing from the concert in Clifton Park, NY this year, as well as YT videos. I will agree again with you though, I do miss that 1998-2003 swagger he had, but I suppose it's time to embrace the new Chino. Cuz he's still a bad motherfucker. 8)
Quote from: TheQuietDoom46 on Dec 01, 2010, 09:46 PM
I took the time to read your post and you made some valid points for sure. I've noticed exactly what your talking about. My response to this is that I think it's just Chino getting older and more mature now. He's really passionate about the new record which I think has basically brought about a new style to his swagger if you will. The crouching, inhale screams, and his old swagger I think are gone for good at this point. That's the old Chino, this is the new one. So when he does the older songs like ATF, Rickets, Bloody Cape, and whatever else, he's going to put the new Chino swagger into it, which primarily does seem less passionate than before. On the other hand, I think he's still being passionate, again just with his new 2010 swagger. I could be totally wrong here, but this is just me observing from the concert in Clifton Park, NY this year, as well as YT videos. I will agree again with you though, I do miss that 1998-2003 swagger he had, but I suppose it's time to embrace the new Chino. Cuz he's still a bad motherfucker. 8)
Yep, i pretty much agree with all that. Swagger's a good way to put it. Thanx for taking the time to read and reply. The great thing about missing that old performance style is you don't have to go far to see it whenever you please, all the awesome fans from around the world and on SL make it readily viewable. Although i'm a bit sad i won't get to see "that" live and in person, i can watch it when i wish. I'm super excited to see DEFTONES come around for their headlining american tour, whenever that is, hopefully SOOOOON. :)
if anything too, he's more energetic on stage now than I think he ever was. 8)
You make some good points. I watched a lotta the performances of ATF and MX and everything frm back then and he seems a hell of a lot more intense and energetic and eveything. But he's older now and ppl change, so he still has the energy and the passion in my opinion, but he isnt in the same frame of mind as he was at that point, so I guess that shows wen he's singing those songs live. I definitely have no issues with it though, it's not something I hate, it's just...different.
Quote from: TheShade1989 on Dec 02, 2010, 01:41 AM
You make some good points. I watched a lotta the performances of ATF and MX and everything frm back then and he seems a hell of a lot more intense and energetic and eveything. But he's older now and ppl change, so he still has the energy and the passion in my opinion, but he isnt in the same frame of mind as he was at that point, so I guess that shows wen he's singing those songs live. I definitely have no issues with it though, it's not something I hate, it's just...different.
Indeed. Another good point here I should have mentioned. He isnt in the same frame of mind anymore when he wrote those songs. That's why you see more passion and a new style with the new songs, where as the older songs there's passion, just not the same as the passion he had for them in 98-03 era. Good point all around. : )
I also miss the good old lyrics.. more misterious than now.
ATF era now = classic... you can't expect the same these days. I think he fully gives himself to performances, sweaty exhausted every f**king single concert. I have no reasons to blame him. Theyl still doing their way in this competitive world of music we should be gratеful for.
ps. I bet Chino has never researched himself as you do :)
Don't be snarky. I wasn't "blaming him" either, for anything, and agree with pretty much everything you guys are all saying, actually some of it was inferred in my original post.
BTW i don't "research Chino". It just so happens that when you listen to one band predominantly for over a decade, it's pretty hard not to notice things like a MAJOR CHANGE IN PERFORMANCE STYLE and VOCALS. I'm not a rocket skates scientist lol.
My whole point was basically that it's almost like there's two versions of the band, and i like both.
I think he is more energetic, but in a more athletic way. Obviously he's older now so he can't throw himself around, pouncing at the audience while screaming like a nut, or climb 20 foot speakers and do flips into the crowd. Well i guess he could but it probably would'nt be a good idea in the long run. I miss that stuff. At the same time, he still "dances", and runs and jumps around like crazy, which is pretty much just as entertaining in a different way.
As i've heard Chino say in interviews countless times, their main goal is longevity, I'm sure abusing his body and voice is something he's grown out of, partially out of necessity.
P.S. wow, Penicks came out of his shell and actually typed something coherent and spelled correctly!!! Good job!!! Too bad he didn't realize i already mentioned Chino's sobriety in the top of the second to last paragraph. ;)
eh fuck you buddy
I KNOOOOWWWW!
I wUz bEinGz aN iRonNNiC alsO!
;D
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 01, 2010, 06:38 AM
In conclusion, personally, i'm not sure i even want to hear some of the older stuff live anymore, it feels like digging my dead lover out of the ground and hugging the lifeless shell, trying to reanimate the corpse instead of just being thankful for all the amazing memories.
That metaphor was pretty neat. But i dont' feel the same, I've seen deftones 2 times the last 6 months and I would hate if they just played later material. it's actually the adrenaline songs that sound the best in my ears :) only play recent stuff is like denying their entire career. no, play something for everyone in the audience.the idea of ONLY hearing diamond eyes songs and snw-tracks at a concert makes me a little ill :-\
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 01, 2010, 06:38 AM
Number one: Chino's voice. Obviously we all know that Chino's voice has changed drastically starting at around the middle of the Self Titled tours. I know that he injured his vocal chords at some point, though i forget when,
he ruined his voice in 2001 ... you can hear it clearly on the live performances of music in high places show.the dvd when they jerk around in hawaii. his voice constantly cracks at that gig
Yeah well i was exaggerating a bit for affect with that metaphor. I don't think they should stop playing ANY material, it's just that especially on certain songs, the delivery is weird to me but not in a good way.
But i mean, if you pick any one part of my post and single it out, i probably seem like a dick or an idiot, i think most of you guys got what i was saying overall.
I'm just glad to have spurned conversation, if we disagree on certain points, that's good. Agreeing all the time can be boring. Some of what i stated was fact, but much of it is just opinions.
I can't wait till they headline, i think it will be more to my liking. I'm really not that used to them playing for only an hour or less.
As far as his voice, yea i remember i used to have that DVD, probably the only Deftones thing i ever bought and was disspointed. But his voice sounds fine to me on the self-titled record, especially on Good Morning Beautiful, WGTB, and Hexagram.
Yep.
Quote from: Vesanic on Dec 02, 2010, 07:13 PM...
I have that dvd, no he has to struggle at some of those songs too. listen and watch him sing the go get your knife part at knife prty, he has to struggle :-\
edit:
"Vocal Damage
In 2001 Moreno developed a throat injury due to heavy screaming and was forced to miss at least four shows. He suffered inflammation on his right vocal cord and partial paralysis of the left vocal cord. During the rest of their supporting tour, Chi Cheng took over vocal duties that required screaming while Chino sang the softer melodies of the lyrics, despite recommendations by doctors to hold off from singing to allow time for recovery as well as rumors that the band would be cancelling the remaining stretch of the tour with Godsmack and Puddle of Mudd. [2]"
wkipedia :P also, check him singing digital bath at the jay leno show in 2001. he's doing the same thing there
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 01, 2010, 06:38 AM
Chino has become, for the most part, a fundamentally different performer/vocalist than the one i personally got to know and love
I saw them twice when they toured around the fur too-sure, those gigs were something special and in ia different way but... can chino still get away with having bleached spikey hair, baggy clothes and acting like a hip hop gangsta star on stage now that he is 37? probably not.
Overall, I think they grow old in style
Quote from: Vesanic on Dec 02, 2010, 07:26 PM...
Do you mean his voice cracks because there is electronics on stage? they had electronics on the around the fur gigs too, no damaged vocals
Quote from: Vesanic on Dec 02, 2010, 07:41 PM...
Don't worry, it's my bad... im just slow in my mental process >:(
Quote from: from_musings on Dec 02, 2010, 07:28 PM
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 01, 2010, 06:38 AM
Chino has become, for the most part, a fundamentally different performer/vocalist than the one i personally got to know and love
I saw them twice when they toured around the fur too-sure, those gigs were something special and in ia different way but... can chino still get away with having bleached spikey hair, baggy clothes and acting like a hip hop gangsta star on stage now that he is 37? probably not.
Overall, I think they grow old in style
Dood, again, if you dismantle my post, sentence for sentence, it's pointless. I also at no point mentioned his clothing or hairstyle, nor do i advocate him throwin' up gang signs and shit. Although, the almost "Emcee" aspect of Chino i think is/was one of the things that seperates him from other frontmen. I'm not a big hip-hop or rap fan, but some of those guys really did know how to get the crowd hyped and involved, and i think that's integral. Most if not all "rock" frontmen just don't know how to do that. Chino himself in a 97 interview that Sly posted on youtube says that he really tries to get the crowd into it. He feeds off them and vice versa, basically. By the way he never stopped doing that, he does that to this day. IMO much better than the "Are you fuckin' guys ready to get fuckin' crazy!!!??? Hello Cincinatti!!!" approach of many others.
.
Quote from: Vesanic on Dec 02, 2010, 07:13 PM...
Chino sounds the same in music in high places as in the back to school apperance at the Jay Leno show,.that voice sound is the same as when his voice breaks in digital bath, jay leno show. personally I think it is something other than gas and stone but I don't know. all I know is that the voice screwed up long before 2003, that was my point :)
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 02, 2010, 08:06 PM
Quote from: from_musings on Dec 02, 2010, 07:28 PM
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 01, 2010, 06:38 AM
Chino has become, for the most part, a fundamentally different performer/vocalist than the one i personally got to know and love
I saw them twice when they toured around the fur too-sure, those gigs were something special and in ia different way but... can chino still get away with having bleached spikey hair, baggy clothes and acting like a hip hop gangsta star on stage now that he is 37? probably not.
Overall, I think they grow old in style
Dood, again, if you dismantle my post, sentence for sentence, it's pointless.
ok sorry. it was a long read, maybe i should have read it more slow and again. i thought i commented on the two big things in all that text
No worries.
And yea you did, it's just that the last quote you edited just so happened to be followed by: .....HOWEVER....
It's all good man.
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 02, 2010, 08:06 PM
Quote from: from_musings on Dec 02, 2010, 07:28 PM
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 01, 2010, 06:38 AM
Chino has become, for the most part, a fundamentally different performer/vocalist than the one i personally got to know and love
He feeds off them and vice versa, basically. By the way he never stopped doing that, he does that to this day. IMO much better than the "Are you fuckin' guys ready to get fuckin' crazy!!!??? Hello Cincinatti!!!" approach of many others.
.
That's right. He has a good way of making the audience part of the show without being an hypocrite about it.
the acoustic renditions on Hawaii are dubbed. Chino had a cold there, u can hear it in the interviews too.
Back to School was the Conan O Brien show, and that was the worst I've ever heard his voice. The screams were awesome, the singing/rapping was not. I remember hearing he had doctor's orders not even to talk that day or something.
I couldn't read all that. That's some kind of 'spamming text'. Don't even know what's this thread about. Yep I'm drunk.
Be specific man, write less shit.
With love, F.
Sorry that you have trouble reading.
I'll be more succinct next time, thank you for your constructive criticism.
I truly appreciate the time you took to share your feelings.
BTW tell your mom i'm sorry the condom broke.
I think we have Mr.The more the merrier Vs. Mr less is more.
Sometimes an opinion or view can get lost in cyber if there's too much chatter around the main thing. At the same time- if a person is writing too brief about something, the opinion sometimes can't be expressed properly. Both extremes causes confusion.
So I'm for the middle thing of the two. that's why I'm mr diplomacy :)
no irony.I understood both, didn't pick side, and I did the "settle down stop fighting, youre both right" thing. (well, actually i did the you're both wrong thing but you get my point)
I'm actually jealous of everyone that got into ATF the first time round, I'da been like 3 when it came out :/
I love the whole feel of that shit. Likejust looking at the album sleeve and shit, you can tell those were cool times. Cool times i completely missed out on.
Quote from: BillyNo.9 on Dec 06, 2010, 01:03 AM
I'm actually jealous of everyone that got into ATF the first time round, I'da been like 3 when it came out :/
I love the whole feel of that shit. Likejust looking at the album sleeve and shit, you can tell those were cool times. Cool times i completely missed out on.
I feel the same way.
same here :(
But it's like me saying I wish I was around for Led Zeppelin and I wasn't. Doesn't make you any less of a fan, you have ears too. Pretty good ones, in fact.
Quote from: DEFinatelydeftones,fsho on Dec 06, 2010, 11:33 AM
But it's like me saying I wish I was around for Led Zeppelin and I wasn't. Doesn't make you any less of a fan, you have ears too. Pretty good ones, in fact.
He says nothing about being less of a fan,just that he wished he was there to experience deftones during that time when they were in their prime and was getting bigger.nothing strange about it really! I think you who disagree- maybe feel the same, but doesn't admit it.I honor him because he is big enough to be honest about it :) Personally I wish i could be there back then to see deftones live when chino had dreads..
But I still wish I could have seen them in 96-00. It will never be like it was back then. V and I talk about this all the time.
one of my Great Regrets in Life will always be the fact that i became a Deftones fan in two thousand and fucking six.
I bought Around the Fur the day it came out because of the bikini chick on the cover. Best purchase I've ever made. I bought Adreniline the next day.
it can be hard to compare two shows when a lot of time has passed.To see a concert as a, lets say 15 year old, and then to compare that experience to when you're, lets say 25 year old seeing a show´again----different things.Experience something in life as a kid and experience something as an adult probably differs a lot. not 100% comparable
I gotta say,billy no 9 seems like a cool person. when a person in another thread goes "yeah dig this i had sex with my girlfriend this morning !"
billy goes "my girlfriend dumped me this morning" . and when everyone goes "yeah i witnessed some bad ass shows in (insert year here:____), billy goes
"i wish i could've seen them from my favorite late 90 era,but i was a fetus back then". much love and support,keep it up :)
Quote from: from_musings on Dec 06, 2010, 10:28 PM
I gotta say,billy no 9 seems like a cool person. when a person in another thread goes "yeah dig this i had sex with my girlfriend this morning !"
billy goes "my girlfriend dumped me this morning" . and when everyone goes "yeah i witnessed some bad ass shows in (insert year here:____), billy goes
"i wish i could've seen them from my favorite late 90 era,but i was a fetus back then". much love and support,keep it up :)
LOL
i've been a fan since late 1995. oddly enough i didn't see them live until 2001. i tried in 98 99 and 2000 but they fell through. never been a huge concert buff, could be another reason it took so long to see them. only seen them 4 times, being a diehard fan that isn't all that much). anyway, the adrenaline ATF era was great. 97 was actully the best year of my life. back then it was super tough to see footage of them live, few and far between, i didn't have internet until 2000 and it was slow then. you'd have to get bootleg vhs tapes from mags or friends of friends. i was 16 when i bought adrenaline, now i'm 31. things are vastly different now
so is this the time we say goodbye to deftones 1.0 ?
Quote from: Penicks on Dec 06, 2010, 04:24 PM
one of my Great Regrets in Life will always be the fact that i became a Deftones fan in two thousand and fucking six.
lol thats the time when chino got his perfect shape
i'm really proud of the 2010 they're having
Seeing them live this year was a little too clinical for me, too rehearsed. I liked it when they would decide thieir setlist like an hour before they went on stage. They should do that now.
The 2003 tour Chino was never sober and was unhealthy which results in a poor performance from him. But he seemed to be more into the music when he was in that state, more emotionally connecting to the songs when he would sing them. Today it's all about "I've sang this song a million times lets all have a good time" which is cool too I guess. I would have done anything to have seen them in 2003 as that's when they played a lot of S/T stuff. I could have seen them at Wembley with A Perfect Circle but had to cancel at the last minute. They played Battle-Axe at that show too :(
Quote from: Vesanic on Dec 07, 2010, 05:45 PM...
in my opinion i think the lisbon one is their best although the wembley one is great aswell
Deftones - Hexagram @ Lisbon 2003 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dutm1pRRxw&feature=related#)
Wembley has to be the biggest venue they've ever headlined in the UK surely
IMO, I think he probably got some coaching after his vocal cord injury and just changed his technique to avoid further injury. That's all speculation, and you could argue that he's not exactly nursing his vocal cords, but I think that could be one explanation for the shift in technique.
I also don't really think one style is necessarily better than the other or that we should be lamenting the old days. He still pwns just as hard \m/
another great performance ....
Deftones - Hexagram (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvk9OueP9Tk#)
Having never been to a live show before this one, I was wondering if this was a good standard, because it felt fucking incredible, maybe it was just b ecasue it was first show.
Deftones - Be Quiet And Drive (Far Away) HD - Live in Manchester 14/11/10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDVTEhP1wm8#ws)
Quote from: Penicks on Dec 06, 2010, 04:24 PM
one of my Great Regrets in Life will always be the fact that i became a Deftones fan in two thousand and fucking six.
Haha, same here. And I just saw them for the first time live this very year. :O
I had like 3 opportunities to see them live this past year and i didn't go! :O
You missed out bigtime dude :(
Quote from: Shadow46/2 on Dec 15, 2010, 06:15 AM
Quote from: Penicks on Dec 06, 2010, 04:24 PM
one of my Great Regrets in Life will always be the fact that i became a Deftones fan in two thousand and fucking six.
Haha, same here. And I just saw them for the first time live this very year. :O
it's great they're pickin up new fans along the way, to make up for people who quit listening to them. newer fans like you are real important. DE has probably earned them quite a few new diehards
Quote from: BillyNo.9 on Dec 16, 2010, 01:43 AM
You missed out bigtime dude :(
Meh, not really a fan of 2010's Chino. I'll catch them on a festival if i'm lucky.
if it's not 2003, he's not interested
Lame
can't see what's wrong with liking a particular era, year or album a little extra. can't even see what's wrong about being manic about a certain year. it's just his taste
Quote from: Hidalgo on Dec 16, 2010, 01:13 PM
Quote from: Shadow46/2 on Dec 15, 2010, 06:15 AM
Quote from: Penicks on Dec 06, 2010, 04:24 PM
one of my Great Regrets in Life will always be the fact that i became a Deftones fan in two thousand and fucking six.
Haha, same here. And I just saw them for the first time live this very year. :O
it's great they're pickin up new fans along the way, to make up for people who quit listening to them. newer fans like you are real important. DE has probably earned them quite a few new diehards
Agree 1000000 pct. My friends and Fiancee are now fans after years of confusion as to why I wanna fuck their previous discography in thee ass!
I was a fan for about 2 years before DE compared to the rest its not that great
Quote from: Hidalgo on Dec 16, 2010, 06:34 PM
if it's not 2003, he's not interested
that's not true, i love 2000 as well
Everybody loves 2000
Deftones are certianly a lot more predictable these days as far as live performances are concerned, you know what your going to get, but thats not really a bad thing, as what they are offering is a pretty tight gig.
Compare Chino's vocals to ST and SNW live performances and you can see how hard he's worked to get there. The rest of the band have always been pretty tight.
When you consider that Deftones could have folded following Chi's accident and the lukewarm recpetion of SNW, you gotta admit Deftones 2.0 is a pretty awesome alternative.
2000 -2003 yeah chino sounded more like his old self than he has done since...
but I don't know man I can't make it through a live performance of beware from the SNW era. I know what he's trying to sing but his voice fails so much it actually sounds painful to me and i'm a fan!
I think Chinos soft breathier vocals are all there right now in DE, really controlled, but when he tries to sing more aggresively, for example on royal and cmnd ctrl, his voice sounds shrill, which makes it difficult to listen to, but thats all the vocal damage. Overall i think he's working really well with his vocals considering the past injuries, it sounds like he has had to adjust a lot and develop methods to hold notes better and that can't have been easy.
It's crazy going back to the original deftones demos and hearing how silky his voice was back in the day
he used to have realy nice range, especially in the like linus days. he lost the consistent high notes in early 01 i'd say. 2010 seems like the most effort he's put in to sound really sharp in a long time
i hate that chino cant do rap anymore. now he sounds so ugly when he rap man.
Quote from: pony_01 on Dec 21, 2010, 04:25 AM
i hate that chino cant do rap anymore. now he sounds so ugly when he rap man.
I don't know if you were serious about that or not, but i actually agree in a way. Of all the rap done in rock, Chino was the best cuz he had his own flow. Not like Fred Durst or others with their "dudda dudda dudda-sky...dudda dudda dudda why...dudda dudda dudda lie...dudda dudda dudda DIE!!!" mad/sad/glad/dad nursery rhyme rapping styles.
Take a song like Lotion (one of my all time faves) for example...Chino is essentially rapping, however, somehow he makes it work without rhyming AT ALL WHATSOEVER. And yet imo it still works, and quite well might i add (so much intensity!!!). It's because of his flow. Chino's flow/flows are such that even in songs where i can't decipher wtf he's saying at all (like any rapping on adrenaline except for minus blindfold, bits of e#9, and 7 words, wexcept for the ending which mostly i can't make out), even then it just SOUNDS cool. Again, just my opinion, but i think in his prime, Chino was better than most rappers out there, and definitely more original, and I MISS THAT :(
Guess that's why i really love CMND/CNTRL, even though i know many of you dislike it. It's the first time in years and albums that he has used that kind of delivery, at least it's comparable.
Deftones, yes yes, gangsta rap, yes yes, fucking woohoo, yes yes.
:)
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 22, 2010, 03:44 AM
Quote from: pony_01 on Dec 21, 2010, 04:25 AM
i hate that chino cant do rap anymore. now he sounds so ugly when he rap man.
I don't know if you were serious about that or not, but i actually agree in a way. Of all the rap done in rock, Chino was the best cuz he had his own flow. Not like Fred Durst or others with their "dudda dudda dudda-sky...dudda dudda dudda why...dudda dudda dudda lie...dudda dudda dudda DIE!!!" mad/sad/glad/dad nursery rhyme rapping styles.
Take a song like Lotion (one of my all time faves) for example...Chino is essentially rapping, however, somehow he makes it work without rhyming AT ALL WHATSOEVER. And yet imo it still works, and quite well might i add (so much intensity!!!). It's because of his flow. Chino's flow/flows are such that even in songs where i can't decipher wtf he's saying at all (like any rapping on adrenaline except for minus blindfold, bits of e#9, and 7 words, wexcept for the ending which mostly i can't make out), even then it just SOUNDS cool. Again, just my opinion, but i think in his prime, Chino was better than most rappers out there, and definitely more original, and I MISS THAT :(
Guess that's why i really love CMND/CNTRL, even though i know many of you dislike it. It's the first time in years and albums that he has used that kind of delivery, at least it's comparable.
Deftones, yes yes, gangsta rap, yes yes, fucking woohoo, yes yes.
:)
actually im glad that now he dont make any rap style anymore, but after 2006 when they did performence for example like engine no.9 or back to school, his rp style sounds really ugly.
Yeah i agree. It sounds like shit. I just like the way he USED to do it. Also although it's very different, i like the attitude and delivery he uses on the verses of cmnd/cntrl.
Quote from: bodywars9000 on Dec 22, 2010, 03:44 AM
Quote from: pony_01 on Dec 21, 2010, 04:25 AM
i hate that chino cant do rap anymore. now he sounds so ugly when he rap man.
I don't know if you were serious about that or not, but i actually agree in a way. Of all the rap done in rock, Chino was the best cuz he had his own flow. Not like Fred Durst or others with their "dudda dudda dudda-sky...dudda dudda dudda why...dudda dudda dudda lie...dudda dudda dudda DIE!!!" mad/sad/glad/dad nursery rhyme rapping styles.
Take a song like Lotion (one of my all time faves) for example...Chino is essentially rapping, however, somehow he makes it work without rhyming AT ALL WHATSOEVER. And yet imo it still works, and quite well might i add (so much intensity!!!). It's because of his flow. Chino's flow/flows are such that even in songs where i can't decipher wtf he's saying at all (like any rapping on adrenaline except for minus blindfold, bits of e#9, and 7 words, wexcept for the ending which mostly i can't make out), even then it just SOUNDS cool. Again, just my opinion, but i think in his prime, Chino was better than most rappers out there, and definitely more original, and I MISS THAT :(
Guess that's why i really love CMND/CNTRL, even though i know many of you dislike it. It's the first time in years and albums that he has used that kind of delivery, at least it's comparable.
Deftones, yes yes, gangsta rap, yes yes, fucking woohoo, yes yes.
:)
cmnd/ctrl is awesome. i also like the rap/rhythmic singing on prince on the "and you can't stop now, rung by rung almost out.." part. i'm glad he doesn't abandon that style totally because it's a part of them i think. but he has stopped moving like a hip-hopper on stage which probably comes with age
Quote from: Vesanic on Dec 22, 2010, 12:30 PM...
chino on stage rapping on lotion in a couple of years (http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy20/from_musings/old-025.gif)
I love his rapping. I didnt really notice it when i saw them this year,but ido remember engine no.9 sounded fucking tight
Quote from: Vesanic on Dec 22, 2010, 05:40 PM...
haha some kind of slow stoner version.
btw, here's fred durst rapping "break stuff" on stage:
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy20/from_musings/Antderp.jpg)