This entire monetary system is a fucking leash. I want nothing to do with it. Let the robots take the jobs.
Any idea's of ways to get by without working??
idiot
cut off a leg or something and live from the social system if your country has one.
i also have no idea y society makes us believe that work is such an important thing. even your freetime is dominated by thoughts concerning your job or something.
we could be much more free if we had to work only for 20 hours a week or something, so we would have more time to create a better society or develop our Selfs.
sometimes its ridiculous how they artificially try to create more jobs while its clear that noone needs 10000 car companies in the world or whatever.
we need to work, but not nearly as much as we do. industries must keep production going, our infrastructures need to be maintained, research must be done to keep medicine and technology moving forward, lives need to be saved in hospitals and so on. but working 8-9 hours a day for 5 days a week is ridiculous and the only reason we do it is because that's the only way you could work many many years ago. farmers needed to get up and start working at sunrise, and only had time to sleep at night. and weekends is just a religious thing (god rested for two days, remember?).
we don't take into account that some people are much more awake and creative/productive at night, some people need 12 hours of sleep to function while others can do with 4, some people work well under stress others don't work at all etc.
I say a normal work day should be 6 hours long, then you can can fit in 2 shifts at daytime and double up on both jobs and amount of work done in a lot of areas, for example offices.
i say we up it to a mandatory 48 hrs paid overtime. if you can survive on 20 hrs a week more power to you, but some of us need to work to pay bills.
Find out what your passion is and find a job in it. It will make your passion feel like work, but its better than doing something boring.
Quote from: nonesuch on May 13, 2009, 09:54 AM
This entire monetary system is a fucking leash. I want nothing to do with it. Let the robots take the jobs.
Any idea's of ways to get by without working??
stop whining and go to work. We all do it.
Quote from: devlin on May 13, 2009, 11:24 AM
i say we up it to a mandatory 48 hrs paid overtime. if you can survive on 20 hrs a week more power to you, but some of us need to work to pay bills.
well bills wouldnt be so high at all if everyone would work less time and doesnt need to be paid for 50 hours a week.
how would everyone working less possible lower the cost of peoples bills? if my landlord worked less he would need even more from me. if business' cut hours they would need to raise prices so they don't lose money.
there is no way around it, if you want to live in society you need money in exchange for goods and services.
lazy fuckers
penguin go assess the market potential of pieces of plastic molded into shapes
maybe you will be rewarded with some slips of paper
haha, you're a retard.
Quote from: Moz on May 13, 2009, 11:37 AM
Find out what your passion is and find a job in it. It will make your passion feel like work, but its better than doing something boring.
That it. I love taking pictures,so I did photography. Now I get $1,200 for a days work.
NEVERMIND OUR PLAN-MAKING! WE'LL START LIVING!!
"ambition is the folly of man"
*there have been good points, looking at Nailec and Anemic's posts.
I try to have as little as possible so i dont have to kill myself trying to pay bills all the time.
no t.v., no car, no phone, no problems :) internet is kinda cool though
anywho, if people stopped feeding the machine it will DIE, as it should, but im starting to believe with all the "progress" we make/ strive for is just so vain and nonsensical. if we could just chill and hang out, life would be that much nicer, and ot so much stress and grief. but people are like this disease to the earth you know, we're multiplying at an exponential rate and consuming EVERYTHING. wasteful killers.
we'll never outlive the dinosaurs.
(http://whatitslikeontheinside.com/uploaded_images/milton_looks-775671.jpg)
I believe you have my stapler.
hahahahah such a funny looking man.. he's got a good swagger though considering his rotundness
You know,with all the pictures you take when you travel,i bet you could sell some of them to a magazine and make a few extra dollars.
What a jackass.
So first of all. Aenemic bud, I hate to call you out. But I'm surprised no one else has yet. God ( Im assuming you're talking about the Christian-Jewish god as this is the religion that has most influenced western civilization) Did not rest for two days. He rested for one day, the 7th day.
Also, I don't think we work 8 hour days because of farmers. We work so much because production and productivity = more product or a better service. Better products and service = more consumption and use. Consumption of products and use of services = money being spent. Lots of money shifting through lots of different hands = a strong economy. Productivity in the work place has never been so high due to technology, but yet we work more hours than ever. Thats how businesses grow and compete. We work so much to compete in the global free market, not because farmers used to.
My thoughts on the topic, yeah work sucks. Right now there is really no way around it because you need money to survive. Whether you work for it, beg for it, or someone supports you, somehow your existence is supported by money(in most cases). But what is money? Its totally 100% fake right? Something that is made up and only holds value because we say it is valuable. It is not backed by anything at all, and can be created or destroyed at the will of the Federal Reserve. So why do we base our entire existence around something that is so fake? Well a long long time ago some smart guys figured out that bartering and slave labor were ok. But they are limited. You can only reach a certain level through barter, and in no way is that excess. Slavery? Well its just a pain in the ass and you can't enslave the whole world..... Or can you? If you control every need in the world ( food , water, transportation, housing ect ect ) and tell people that the only way they can obtain these things, is through these pieces of paper, then tell people the only way to obtain these pieces of paper is to work. Bam, you got em. Then add in all the wants, and make people think they either need things that they actually only want, or drive people mad over the aesthetics of owning a product ( fashion, luxury cars, gigantic homes, private jets ect ect ) People will work their whole lives to obtain these things. Even if they truly can't and wont ever be able to afford them.
Now is this ok? Probably not. We really are slaves to a system that most would not prefer. What to do about it? Well.......probably nothing. I actually think its going to take care of itself in time. It is a fact that more and more jobs are being automated by machines. We can only create so many "new jobs" to deal with these jobs lost. There're only going to be so many inventions like the internet to create a whole new kind of job. And the government can only create so many bull shit jobs to hide these numbers. You can only hire so many supervisors of supervisors for supervisors to supervise the guy cutting the grass at the white house. You know? So more and more will be unemployed, more and more on the government ticket being supported by jobs that are creating revenue through robot labor. Till eventually, people are going to question the system. " why give us money that we did not earn, to let us buy products produced by no one but robots?" Why not just give us food, build shelter, provide recreation. It will become harder and harder to capitalize off greed. Until eventually the world hits a tilting point and realizes they have outgrown government and economics as we know it. Or maybe not. Who knows?
Quote from: Variable on May 14, 2009, 02:24 AM
Also, I don't think we work 8 hour days because of farmers. We work so much because production and productivity = more product or a better service. Better products and service = more consumption and use. Consumption of products and use of services = money being spent. Lots of money shifting through lots of different hands = a strong economy. Productivity in the work place has never been so high due to technology, but yet we work more hours than ever. Thats how businesses grow and compete. We work so much to compete in the global free market, not because farmers used to.
My thoughts on the topic, yeah work sucks. Right now there is really no way around it because you need money to survive. Whether you work for it, beg for it, or someone supports you, somehow your existence is supported by money(in most cases). But what is money? Its totally 100% fake right? Something that is made up and only holds value because we say it is valuable. It is not backed by anything at all, and can be created or destroyed at the will of the Federal Reserve. So why do we base our entire existence around something that is so fake? Well a long long time ago some smart guys figured out that bartering and slave labor were ok. But they are limited. You can only reach a certain level through barter, and in no way is that excess. Slavery? Well its just a pain in the ass and you can't enslave the whole world..... Or can you? If you control every need in the world ( food , water, transportation, housing ect ect ) and tell people that the only way they can obtain these things, is through these pieces of paper, then tell people the only way to obtain these pieces of paper is to work. Bam, you got em. Then add in all the wants, and make people think they either need things that they actually only want, or drive people mad over the aesthetics of owning a product ( fashion, luxury cars, gigantic homes, private jets ect ect ) People will work their whole lives to obtain these things. Even if they truly can't and wont ever be able to afford them.
Now is this ok? Probably not. We really are slaves to a system that most would not prefer. What to do about it? Well.......probably nothing. I actually think its going to take care of itself in time. It is a fact that more and more jobs are being automated by machines. We can only create so many "new jobs" to deal with these jobs lost. There're only going to be so many inventions like the internet to create a whole new kind of job. And the government can only create so many bull shit jobs to hide these numbers. You can only hire so many supervisors of supervisors for supervisors to supervise the guy cutting the grass at the white house. You know? So more and more will be unemployed, more and more on the government ticket being supported by jobs that are creating revenue through robot labor. Till eventually, people are going to question the system. " why give us money that we did not earn, to let us buy products produced by no one but robots?" Why not just give us food, build shelter, provide recreation. It will become harder and harder to capitalize off greed. Until eventually the world hits a tilting point and realizes they have outgrown government and economics as we know it. Or maybe not. Who knows?
dude.. such an awesome post. really really valid points. completely agree.
but i still wanna kill it.
Thank you variable for your inevitable essay. Good points made, except the greater than thou point out of aenimic's mistake. But your an incorrigible asshole so it's a moot point. Livewire your ever poignant and your pop culture relation wit knows no bounds. Everyone else except penguin also brought interesting thoughts to the topic.
My view is money makes enemies of us all. It is the most potent separating factor ever devised. It forces an every man for himself world, which is simply tragic. It is the sole factor behind most crime on earth and often the reason things are labeled crime. Marijuana?
it has made the entire human race completely insane, literally. Think about it, for us to live, to survive on this planet we need two things, Food,and water. In order for us to get food and water we must rely on the earth. The drive for profit, for money, has us regularly and rapidly destroying our only source of food and water. (and any research at all will show how rapidly, we are on pace to fish the oceans dry by the mid to late 2000s) It goes against even simple reasoning. We have been convinced that owning the new touch screen cell phone with 8 gb camera is more important than protecting our life source. We are all completely out of our minds.
What do you want to be when you grow up johnny?
Translation: what meaningless soul destroying job while you be forced to accept because you will want the highest pay so you can afford plastic wrapped in plastic that will soon be plastic laying on top of a pile of plastic so you can buy new plastic
Wow nonesuch.... I gotta say I love your rant man....
Me, same as you, have no fucking clue at which point things got fucked up like that.....
Quote from: nonesuch on May 14, 2009, 06:35 AM
Thank you variable for your inevitable essay. Good points made, except the greater than thou point out of aenimic's mistake. But your an incorrigible asshole so it's a moot point. Livewire your ever poignant and your pop culture relation wit knows no bounds. Everyone else except penguin also brought interesting thoughts to the topic.
My view is money makes enemies of us all. It is the most potent separating factor ever devised. It forces an every man for himself world, which is simply tragic. It is the sole factor behind most crime on earth and often the reason things are labeled crime. Marijuana?
it has made the entire human race completely insane, literally. Think about it, for us to live, to survive on this planet we need two things, Food,and water. In order for us to get food and water we must rely on the earth. The drive for profit, for money, has us regularly and rapidly destroying our only source of food and water. (and any research at all will show how rapidly, we are on pace to fish the oceans dry by the mid to late 2000s) It goes against even simple reasoning. We have been convinced that owning the new touch screen cell phone with 8 gb camera is more important than protecting our life source. We are all completely out of our minds.
What do you want to be when you grow up johnny?
Translation: what meaningless soul destroying job while you be forced to accept because you will want the highest pay so you can afford plastic wrapped in plastic that will soon be plastic laying on top of a pile of plastic so you can buy new plastic
haha, that was a great post. I agree, maybe not to 100%, but to somewhere between 90 and 95%.
Quote from: Variable on May 14, 2009, 02:24 AM
So first of all. Aenemic bud, I hate to call you out. But I'm surprised no one else has yet. God ( Im assuming you're talking about the Christian-Jewish god as this is the religion that has most influenced western civilization) Did not rest for two days. He rested for one day, the 7th day.
Also, I don't think we work 8 hour days because of farmers. We work so much because production and productivity = more product or a better service. Better products and service = more consumption and use. Consumption of products and use of services = money being spent. Lots of money shifting through lots of different hands = a strong economy. Productivity in the work place has never been so high due to technology, but yet we work more hours than ever. Thats how businesses grow and compete. We work so much to compete in the global free market, not because farmers used to.
yeah ,sorry he rested for one day. I don't give two flying fucks about the bible so sometimes I get these things wrong. but my point still stands, god rested on the 7th day, that's why it was first forbidden to work on sundays and now we have weekend on sundays (although these days a lot of people actually do work on sundays).
as for the rest, I think you kinda missed my point there. yes, we work long hours because of higher productivity. did I ever state anything else? and what was the first real job ever? yeah, that's right... some kind of farmer. you could say hunter, but I wouldn't say it's the same thing considering at that point in human history I doubt we slept for 8 hours, got up started hunting at scheduled times, then went to sleep when it got dark. so obviously our daily routine and the way we work has its origins in farming.
You guys quit with the farmer shit. My father was a farmer and to hell he worked 8 hours a day. More like 14. We are all lazy fucks compared to real farmers. End.
Quote from: Moz on May 14, 2009, 12:33 PM
You guys quit with the farmer shit. My father was a farmer and to hell he worked 8 hours a day. More like 14. We are all lazy fucks compared to real farmers. End.
haha, yeah and that kinda proves my point.
Quote from: nonesuch on May 14, 2009, 06:35 AM
plastic wrapped in plastic that will soon be plastic laying on top of a pile of plastic so you can buy new plastic
hahahahahaha
i like shiny things. we are all "literally insane". i tend to see humans as the "most retarded" of anything which exists... really, -everything we do is completely stupefying and absurd. besides love.
that statement is retarded for sure. We're obviously the most brilliant beings around. Greedy is more like it.
craztegs, is that the guy from trailer park boys? That may be the funniest show EVER!! Everyone must watch it
It actually has a good value for this topic. None of the charters work, yet they always have pot
and end up in jail a few months every year.
well, jail life here in sweden seems to be better than how a lot of regular people live.
this topic is becoming a good one. at the moment i have no time to read properlly.
but @variable: when have you become a (neo)marxist?
would you really say brilliant? Our ability to create is quite spectacular, but what other species intentionally damages it's chances at survival. Of course we are destroying the Earth, but we also destroy ourselves personally. Smoking, Excessive drinking, drinking and driving, poor eating, thrill seekng, etc. Survival is the bottom line most important point to life. We (lifeforms) live to live, its all we know. We don't know why we should live, why we should prolong the existence of our species, but we know we have cocks and pussies, we know our stomachs hurt when there is no food in them, Yet we are jeopardizing our own future existence as well as the existence of every other form of life on this planet. All in the name of money. Doesn't seem too bright to me, it seems "retarded". As in mentally deficient, as in not making rational, logical decisions
Obviously no money = no food or shelter . So work is a must.
Or go buy a lotto ticket everyday. Wont have to do shit for the rest of your life if you win.
no money = no buying lottery tickets
we only need money because were all convinced money is the only way to function
Money = inherent selfishness, competition, fear, subjugation
see resource based economy
Quote from: nonesuch on May 14, 2009, 06:59 PM
we only need money because were all convinced money is the only way to function
At this point, it is the only way. You should have started this rant a few thousand years ago man.
yea well whats the point in talking about anything?
Maybe we should all be given a life plan at birth, provided by our trusted government, and then just follow it step by step till we die, and never ask any questions
Quote from: aenemic on May 14, 2009, 09:27 AM
Quote from: Variable on May 14, 2009, 02:24 AM
So first of all. Aenemic bud, I hate to call you out. But I'm surprised no one else has yet. God ( Im assuming you're talking about the Christian-Jewish god as this is the religion that has most influenced western civilization) Did not rest for two days. He rested for one day, the 7th day.
Also, I don't think we work 8 hour days because of farmers. We work so much because production and productivity = more product or a better service. Better products and service = more consumption and use. Consumption of products and use of services = money being spent. Lots of money shifting through lots of different hands = a strong economy. Productivity in the work place has never been so high due to technology, but yet we work more hours than ever. Thats how businesses grow and compete. We work so much to compete in the global free market, not because farmers used to.
yeah ,sorry he rested for one day. I don't give two flying fucks about the bible so sometimes I get these things wrong. but my point still stands, god rested on the 7th day, that's why it was first forbidden to work on sundays and now we have weekend on sundays (although these days a lot of people actually do work on sundays).
as for the rest, I think you kinda missed my point there. yes, we work long hours because of higher productivity. did I ever state anything else? and what was the first real job ever? yeah, that's right... some kind of farmer. you could say hunter, but I wouldn't say it's the same thing considering at that point in human history I doubt we slept for 8 hours, got up started hunting at scheduled times, then went to sleep when it got dark. so obviously our daily routine and the way we work has its origins in farming.
I just think you're reaching. i didn't think I was being an ass hole by saying so....but I guess I was? I just really don't think the work week has anything to do with farming or god is all.
Quote from: Nailec on May 14, 2009, 03:43 PM
this topic is becoming a good one. at the moment i have no time to read properlly.
but @variable: when have you become a (neo)marxist?
I don't know..... i guess when I opened my eyes to the world around me? I don't think I would actually classify myself as a neo Marxist. I think political views are very relative to the world surrounding you, and the system you live in. A lot of people agree with socialism, but say it would be impossible to obtain anymore ( no one really saw credit coming ) so instead they are capitalist or whatever. I just see through the current system and can envision a better world.
to me your question is like this... Variable, since when are you against people starving to death? Since when are you against war? Since when are you against people dying of preventable diseases? since when are you against polluting water to gain capital off imported bottle water? Since when are you against keeping nations impoverished to make them dependent on your exports? since when are you against imperialism? ect ect ect
oh sure, if you want to talk about democracy and republics and free economics. I'm all for federalism and very small government intervention. I'm all for free enterprise and leaving people along to run their business how thye want so that they either thrive or die in the free market based on the quality of their product - service. But is democracy and capitalism really a good system? Is it the best we have come up with? Well, even if you say yes, we're working on something better. And it seems to me that it starts with a totally new kind of monetary system, or none at all....
unfortunately work is a neccessary evil if you wish to have a reliable place to sleep (unless you can live with the rents forever). that being said, people put too much emphasis on their jobs and the money they make. Why not strive for a life of leisure and make work a means to an end rather than the end itself. sure, i work 8 hours a day, but when its over i forget all about it and go pursue my real passions: bear love and collecting vintage speculums
(http://www.sailcone.com/images/bear_photos/bigbear_16.jpg)
we hear ya
i'm working on a series of paintings :)
Quote from: goldpony on May 19, 2009, 05:10 PM
unfortunately work is a neccessary evil if you wish to have a reliable place to sleep (unless you can live with the rents forever). that being said, people put too much emphasis on their jobs and the money they make. Why not strive for a life of leisure and make work a means to an end rather than the end itself. sure, i work 8 hours a day, but when its over i forget all about it and go pursue my real passions: bear love and collecting vintage speculums
I think that one of the points of this topic is that yes work is necessary in this system, but what if the system was different so that we didn't have to work?
I hear you on what you said about making work a means to an end. Just live your life to be happy and make work something you do to survive and allow you to pursue your happiness. It's probably also better if you can somehow find work that you do enjoy ( as Kelly said ). But I still agree with the many statements in this topic that we are slaves to work and money. That we would be infinitely more free if we did not
have to hold occupations.
I think about it sometimes. Especially since I learned about the Venus project ( I'm guessing that's where nonesuch got this rant from) but I just think about how it would be if we did have a resource based economy. If everything I needed was just provided and I was free to live my life how it made me happy. Be able to sleep in when I want. Organize a trip with my buddies to just go mountain climbing in Afghanistan, or snowboarding in Switzerland , scuba diving in Australia, just sit around for a week and smoke peyote ......because fuck it, we have nothing better to do but enjoy our lives and enjoy eachothers company. That sounds like living to me. When I get stressed I think about stuff like this and it calms me down.
I'm wandering around the globe, doing whatever the fuck i want to do
And yea Variable, exactly, the point of this thread isn't that I (or the all encompassing "we") don't want to work. I don't, but the point is that it's shit that we HAVE to work. And the argument that noone would do anything and the world would fall apart is ridiculous.
The people that do the most good do it because they want to. Scientists don't get into science because of the big bux, they do it because they love it. They were the kids that got first prize in the science fair and reveled in it. So they would still study science and invent even if money wasn't there, but instead of working for pharmecutical giants (because they pay the best) that are pumping out brain destoying dope for problems that dont exist, or making make up, or building atomic weapons, they would be creating truly useful technologies, they would concentrate on the good of mankind, and they would be celebrated as heros for it. Same for doctors, some get into it for the money, but most just want to help people, and if all of their needs were taken care of freely they would still want to help people. And healthcare would be vastly better it doctors weren't suggesting surgery for every ailment because they get more money, or prescribing the drug of the month because some pill company is offering vacations. Besides, how much better do people work when they are doing something they WANT to do, not something they HAVE to do?
As far as shit jobs are concerned, let the robots have em
the Holy Book wisely said a million years ago - "Money is the ROOT of ALL evil"
too true God, too true
the people who get paid a shit load of money anyway probably would still do it. because as you said they love it. but there are way to many "shit" for the "robots to have"who the everything needs someone to make/grow it, pack it, ship it, stock it, and sell it. wtih out all that no one would eat, unless everyone became farmers and thats not very conducive to the wandering the globe getting high life style. i can't believe so many of you want your life to be purposless leisure.
EDIT: i totally understand some kid wanting to take a year or two to travel and live it up before starting college or going into a career. but to spend your whole life that way...besides plan tickets, food, shelter, drugs all cost money. you wont get far with that life style either. well unless you give a mean blowjob anyway.
Quote from: nonesuch on May 20, 2009, 01:47 PM
the Holy Book wisely said a million years ago - "Money is the ROOT of ALL evil"
I do agree with this.
before we get too far, i think everyone neds to realize that not everyone can be independent. what i mean is, we all say this is how we would live life but to actually live a life "doing nothing" is hard work. to truly make it work, do you realize all the budgeting, decisions and just straight up worrying about money that has to be done. a lot of times its more work and stress to live without constraints than it is to be a cubicle drone. just ask all those back to nature folks who live in alaska. I dont think i could hold those guys jocks.
Dev you would be surprised how much labor (farming in particular) is already done by machines. Robots are rapidly taking jobs from people all the time, and its a big problem because now those people cant make money to survive. In the very near future damn near all repetitive labor shit work will be automated anyway, and all those hands that used to be occupied will be left with just a dick.
Goldpony you may be right that not all people can handle freedom. Actually most people want and need to be told what to do all the time. But I am a perfect example of the opposite. For over a year now i have been wandering around from country to country doing whatever i please. I barely have enough money to feed myself most of the time but i never worry about it. When i need money i teach english, or when i was in australia i did whatever i had to do to survive (bars, restaurants, hostels, etc). I'm honestly never stressed and i couldnt be happier.
Quote from: devilinside on May 20, 2009, 04:04 PM
Quote from: nonesuch on May 20, 2009, 01:47 PM
the Holy Book wisely said a million years ago - "Money is the ROOT of ALL evil"
I do agree with this.
I guess ill be called an ass hole again for correcting an inaccuracy in someones post. But it actually says " The
love of money is the root of all evil." Big difference I think.
not that big really cuz even people that hate money commit evil to get it, and it all depends on what version and translation of the Bible your reading
and yes, you are an asshole
Quote from: Variable on May 21, 2009, 12:46 AM
Quote from: devilinside on May 20, 2009, 04:04 PM
Quote from: nonesuch on May 20, 2009, 01:47 PM
the Holy Book wisely said a million years ago - "Money is the ROOT of ALL evil"
I do agree with this.
I guess ill be called an ass hole again for correcting an inaccuracy in someones post. But it actually says " The love of money is the root of all evil." Big difference I think.
ASSHOLE!!!
Work is never over
Quote from: nonesuch on May 20, 2009, 01:47 PM
I'm wandering around the globe, doing whatever the fuck i want to do
And yea Variable, exactly, the point of this thread isn't that I (or the all encompassing "we") don't want to work. I don't, but the point is that it's shit that we HAVE to work. And the argument that noone would do anything and the world would fall apart is ridiculous.
The people that do the most good do it because they want to. Scientists don't get into science because of the big bux, they do it because they love it. They were the kids that got first prize in the science fair and reveled in it. So they would still study science and invent even if money wasn't there, but instead of working for pharmecutical giants (because they pay the best) that are pumping out brain destoying dope for problems that dont exist, or making make up, or building atomic weapons, they would be creating truly useful technologies, they would concentrate on the good of mankind, and they would be celebrated as heros for it. Same for doctors, some get into it for the money, but most just want to help people, and if all of their needs were taken care of freely they would still want to help people. And healthcare would be vastly better it doctors weren't suggesting surgery for every ailment because they get more money, or prescribing the drug of the month because some pill company is offering vacations. Besides, how much better do people work when they are doing something they WANT to do, not something they HAVE to do?
As far as shit jobs are concerned, let the robots have em
the Holy Book wisely said a million years ago - "Money is the ROOT of ALL evil"
too true God, too true
This post reminded me of Marx. From the Communist Manifesto " The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honored and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage-laborers."
But I do think a lot of people go into these high paid jobs, just for the money. But in the kind of society you are talking about, I agree that people would do them because they love them. That would probably raise the quality of work coming out of these people. Plus people would be free to be teachers and all those other jobs that we all say " They should be making the most money " because there would be no money. Just respect and satisfaction. So in essence, they would be the highest paid.
I think we ran into a communication problem in this thread. Devlin and Josh , I think you seem to be thinking that we are talking about just being some kind of kung fu transient in todays world and economy. That obviously only makes sense for a short time and could not be done by the whole world at once.
What we ( or at least I ) am talking about is a world that doesn't exist yet. A world where there is literally no currency. A world where labor is done by machines, so humans no longer have to perform labor. Its not about being lazy, its about freedom. Not being a slave to a monetary system. You are free to do as you please because you have nothing holding you back.
You guys said it yourselves. About how you can't imagine people wanting lives of leisure and so forth. People wouldn't. Humans would still have drives to achieve. We would still educate ourselves. With that education Doctors would treat patients because its what they love to do. Scientist would solve problems because it is a passion. Artist would make art because it brings them joy to share it with the world...... You could be as productive as you wish. That is the beauty. I could become a MD without huge med school bills. So I could be free to travel and enjoy the world, all the while practicing a passion of mine ( medicine ) for the people I encounter.
No stress about money, because it doesn't exist. No stress about food, because it is provided. No need to run to a sports store to buy mountain climbing gear, because it is provided. How cool would that be?
I understand the thousands of doubts running through your heads right now about how it wouldn't work because of this and that. But even if you can only see it in theory, how cool would that be?
Quote from: nonesuch on May 21, 2009, 12:52 AM
not that big really cuz even people that hate money commit evil to get it, and it all depends on what version and translation of the Bible your reading
and yes, you are an asshole
See I think it is a really big difference. And every version of the bible I have seen it says "the love....." if you google 1st timothy 6:10 you can see a lot of articles and online discussions about how it is one of the most misquotes verses in the bible. Here is the entire verse from many translations of the bible. Notice how it goes on to say only
some people are negatively effected by it. I'm not preaching, because I dont think the bible is a holy book. But I just wanted to clear that up. I just don't think money is always evil. You can be born into this system and just be trying to make ends meat to feed your children. Its when you love money. When you would do anything to get it no matter who you hurt. That is evil.
International Standard Version (©2008)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, in their eagerness to get rich, have wandered away from the faith and caused themselves a lot of pain.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Certainly, the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Some people who have set their hearts on getting rich have wandered away from the Christian faith and have caused themselves a lot of grief.
King James Bible
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
American King James Version
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
American Standard Version
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil: which some reaching after have been led astray from the faith, and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Bible in Basic English
For the love of money is a root of all evil: and some whose hearts were fixed on it have been turned away from the faith, and been wounded with unnumbered sorrows.
Douay-Rheims Bible
For the desire of money is the root of all evils; which some coveting have erred from the faith, and have entangled themselves in many sorrows.
Darby Bible Translation
For the love of money is the root of every evil; which some having aspired after, have wandered from the faith, and pierced themselves with many sorrows.
English Revised Version
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil: which some reaching after have been led astray from the faith, and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Webster's Bible Translation
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some have coveted, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Weymouth New Testament
For from love of money all sorts of evils arise; and some have so hankered after money as to be led astray from the faith and be pierced through with countless sorrows.
World English Bible
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some have been led astray from the faith in their greed, and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Young's Literal Translation
for a root of all the evils is the love of money, which certain longing for did go astray from the faith, and themselves did pierce through with many sorrows;
Quote from: devilinside on May 21, 2009, 12:57 AMPUSSY LIPS!
Quote from: Variable on May 21, 2009, 12:46 AM
Quote from: devilinside on May 20, 2009, 04:04 PM
Quote from: nonesuch on May 20, 2009, 01:47 PM
the Holy Book wisely said a million years ago - "Money is the ROOT of ALL evil"
I do agree with this.
I guess ill be called an ass hole again for correcting an inaccuracy in someones post. But it actually says “ The love of money is the root of all evil.” Big difference I think.
ASSHOLE!!!
Quote from: Variable on May 21, 2009, 03:49 AM
Quote from: nonesuch on May 20, 2009, 01:47 PM
I'm wandering around the globe, doing whatever the fuck i want to do
And yea Variable, exactly, the point of this thread isn't that I (or the all encompassing "we") don't want to work. I don't, but the point is that it's shit that we HAVE to work. And the argument that noone would do anything and the world would fall apart is ridiculous.
The people that do the most good do it because they want to. Scientists don't get into science because of the big bux, they do it because they love it. They were the kids that got first prize in the science fair and reveled in it. So they would still study science and invent even if money wasn't there, but instead of working for pharmecutical giants (because they pay the best) that are pumping out brain destoying dope for problems that dont exist, or making make up, or building atomic weapons, they would be creating truly useful technologies, they would concentrate on the good of mankind, and they would be celebrated as heros for it. Same for doctors, some get into it for the money, but most just want to help people, and if all of their needs were taken care of freely they would still want to help people. And healthcare would be vastly better it doctors weren't suggesting surgery for every ailment because they get more money, or prescribing the drug of the month because some pill company is offering vacations. Besides, how much better do people work when they are doing something they WANT to do, not something they HAVE to do?
As far as shit jobs are concerned, let the robots have em
the Holy Book wisely said a million years ago - "Money is the ROOT of ALL evil"
too true God, too true
This post reminded me of Marx. From the Communist Manifesto " The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honored and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage-laborers."
But I do think a lot of people go into these high paid jobs, just for the money. But in the kind of society you are talking about, I agree that people would do them because they love them. That would probably raise the quality of work coming out of these people. Plus people would be free to be teachers and all those other jobs that we all say " They should be making the most money " because there would be no money. Just respect and satisfaction. So in essence, they would be the highest paid.
I think we ran into a communication problem in this thread. Devlin and Josh , I think you seem to be thinking that we are talking about just being some kind of kung fu transient in todays world and economy. That obviously only makes sense for a short time and could not be done by the whole world at once.
What we ( or at least I ) am talking about is a world that doesn't exist yet. A world where there is literally no currency. A world where labor is done by machines, so humans no longer have to perform labor. Its not about being lazy, its about freedom. Not being a slave to a monetary system. You are free to do as you please because you have nothing holding you back.
You guys said it yourselves. About how you can't imagine people wanting lives of leisure and so forth. People wouldn't. Humans would still have drives to achieve. We would still educate ourselves. With that education Doctors would treat patients because its what they love to do. Scientist would solve problems because it is a passion. Artist would make art because it brings them joy to share it with the world...... You could be as productive as you wish. That is the beauty. I could become a MD without huge med school bills. So I could be free to travel and enjoy the world, all the while practicing a passion of mine ( medicine ) for the people I encounter.
No stress about money, because it doesn't exist. No stress about food, because it is provided. No need to run to a sports store to buy mountain climbing gear, because it is provided. How cool would that be?
I understand the thousands of doubts running through your heads right now about how it wouldn't work because of this and that. But even if you can only see it in theory, how cool would that be?
well your right i had no idea thats what you were talking about. i can honestly say that i don't see that EVER happening. the people with the most control are the people with money. which makes them better, higher class, more powerful (even if only in their own head). why would they want to get rid of money? like was said before the more machines do the less there is for humans to do. and since i don't see money disapearing, i see this leading to even more poverty and hardships for humans.
but if things were to work out to be the utopian future that you describe i see 90% of humans becaming lazier and fatter and wasting away the time. ever see Wall-e? only musicians, artists, pro athletes, doctors, scientist ect... people who already do what they love, would continue and make the most of their time. many may start strong but to much time on the hands is bad for most people.
They would want to give up their money because I'm going to kill whoever doesn't.
lol fair enough
If I didn't have all this student debt I'd build my own shelter and live in the woods. I just wouldn't want to leave my parents with all the payments because they cosigned the shit.
God, I wish I would've been around for this conversation. I would've set y'all straight. The Neo-Anarcho-Communists or whatever you wanna call them do have a point in saying that we shouldn't have to work as much as we do because of all the technology we have today, etc. But their mechanism for society completely lacks a pricing mechanism, or resource allocation device, based on individual's needs, abilities to pay for their wants, etc. That can only come from the free market (and protection of private property), the coming together of every person's every decision, weaving the web of these decisions into a fabric that is the price structure.
So while their prescription for the disease is entirely misled and genuinely worse for the population, they nonetheless see a similar disease to what I and other Austrian economists do. The disease is really the robbery of all of our productivity through taxes, regulation and inflation, and the effects they have on resource allocation and the fabric I described above. It's the reason we have to work our fucking asses off more and more for less and less all of the time. It's just the government ripping off people's productivity and preventing more from occurring, so we have to work ever harder for it.
Totally agree with you on private property. Soon all the rich are going to buy all access land, and we are going to be fucked. SO FUCK PRIVATE PROPERTY.
This seems incredibly off topic. Work is the reason you are able to eat. Quit your bitching.
Save up and start a business. that's what I plan to do. I want to be in complete control and not take orders from anyone else.
Working in a fine dining restaurant in December is a bitch.
Quote from: Oldnewtype on Dec 12, 2011, 02:59 PM
Working in a fine dining restaurant in December is a bitch.
No new years eve or holiday dinners? Or too many ppl storming in?
Quote from: Make_shift Destiny on Dec 07, 2011, 02:37 AM
Totally agree with you on private property. Soon all the rich are going to buy all access land, and we are going to be fucked. SO FUCK PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Actually my post was defending private property. You don't have to worry about the rich; they can't do anything to you without the help of the government's monopoly on force.
And Defskull, my point wasn't to say fuck working or whatever, it was to point out that we wouldn't have to work so hard to maintain a reasonable standard of living if it weren't for government fucking up the price structure with inflation, taxes, and regulations.
its cool to stop by the board and see so many old school members on just this page alone.
This topic sucks. I can't FIND a job. I feel better about myself when I'm productive. That's just how I am. Granted I'd like to make music for a living.....but in the meantime a regular job wouldn't be so bad.
Blame the Federal government, the Federal Reserve, the SEC, the EPA, OSHA, the minimum wage, the Department of Energy, the income tax, the capital gains tax, the dividend income tax, the corporate income tax, Obamacare, certain portions of the Civil Rights Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act, the list goes on and on. All of those things either create uncertainty or undermine the formation of capital, destroying jobs and harming everyone.
But then you gotta roll up your sleeves and get to it. There are jobs out there; you just have to adapt and maybe take a pay cut. It does absolutely suck a big sweaty ball sack, but I already told you who to blame for the mess we're in.
If you want it to change as soon as fucking possible, learn about Ron Paul and convince everyone you know to convince everyone they know to do the same thing. We actually have a chance to change our near future for the better as opposed to its FAR WORSE option. I know I might sound like a total shill, but time is running short.
Instead of bullshit and hate let's share who works where.
I work in a authorized Apple premium reseller.
Before you ask - no, I am not an Apple fanboy - though I do have a certain appreciation for some of the Apple products and mostly for the functions/integration/design/etc. But still, not a fanboy, so insult Apple as much as you want, artfags, I am untouchable, lol.
Work is good. My duties are - selling stuff (starting with shitty things like iPhone cases and finishing with custom iMacs, MacBooks, soundsystems, etc), interacting with clients on using Apple products, software, etc; and finally, support. Fixing, restarting, updating, etc etc.
I get paid enough, though there are some major disadvantages to the job - I work in a major shopping mall with lots of shinny lights and stupid customers, it gets super-mentally-tiring, especially while working 11 hour shit. But all is well.